Conceptual Balance Series (Mod)

[jeffr]

Edi, great work on the readme!

And of course, thanks to Zen, as well.

thanks for including the original value. It really helps in determining how much something was strengthened/weakened.

[jeffr]

Zen said:
ScalesMod 1.1

Code:

---

Scale               Stock           Mod



Order/Turmoil       Gold 7%         Gold 6%

Productivity/Sloth  Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Resources 10%   Resources 15%

Heat/Cold           Gold 5%         Gold 7%

Growth/Death        Gold 2%         Gold 4%

                    Population .02% Population .03%

Luck/Misfortune     Event 10%       Event 13%

                    RareEvent 15%   RareEvent 20%

---

Doesn't Order/Turmoil currently have some effect on the Event frequency?

[Turin]

Growth seems to be far better compared to order.

I ran a test game, where I gave one god order 1 and the other growth 1, order started with 166 income growth with 163. I just ended the turns after checking incomes.
After the second turn growth income jumped to 165 and after the 6th turn he was already at 167.

I suggest removing the extra 2% gold bonus growth gets, it is already a very worthwile scale withe the increased population growth effect.

[Edi]

jeffr said:
Edi, great work on the readme!

And of course, thanks to Zen, as well.

thanks for including the original value. It really helps in determining how much something was strengthened/weakened.

It was the only smart way to do it, my mistake that I didn't do so earlier. This way I won't have to refer back to my other documentation to see the actual effects. Thanks for your compliments.

Edi

[Ivan Pedroso]

Turin said:
Growth seems to be far better compared to order.

I ran a test game, where I gave one god order 1 and the other growth 1, order started with 166 income growth with 163. I just ended the turns after checking incomes.
After the second turn growth income jumped to 165 and after the 6th turn he was already at 167.

I suggest removing the extra 2% gold bonus growth gets, it is already a very worthwile scale withe the increased population growth effect.

Nevermind the following - it's wrong

Couldn't help doing a bit of algebra:

Income from province with Order+1 (on the N'th turn):
population / 200 * 1,06

Accumulated income with Order+1:
population / 200 * 1,06 * N

Income from province with Growth+1 (on the N'th turn):
population / 200 * 1,04 * 1,0003^N

Accumulated income with Growth+1:
population / 200 * 1,04 * Sum(i=1 to N of)[1,0003^ i]

The Last term in the above is a geometric series which adds up to:
Sum(i=1 to N of)[1,0003^ i] = (1 - 1,0003^(N+1))/(1 - 1,0003) - 1
Sum(bla bla)[bla bla bla] = (1,0003^(N+1) - 1) / 0,0003

Equating the two different accumulated incomes (Order+1 = Growth+1) gives:
1,06 * N = 1,04 * (1,0003^(N+1) - 1) / 0,0003

Here are the values of the left- and right-hand sides of this equation for some values of N:

Code:

---

N     Left(Order+1)  Right(Growth+1)  

1      1,06000	       1,040312

50    53,00000        52,399756

100  106,00000       105,591314

125  132,50000	     132,487750

126  133,56000       133,567808

---

All this (crap ) just to say that in terms of income Growth+1 overtakes Order+1 after 125 turns. If you choose +3, Growth will ovetake Order at turn 115.

[DeathDaemon]

This mod is getting better and better! Thanks guys!

Edi, couple typos in readme:
-check the treelords' magic paths
(621) Treelord -> Vengeful Treelord
(980) Treelord -> Ageless Treelord

-missing parenthesis
(925) Tarrasque

[Edi]

Indeed, thanks. Looks like I'd mistakenly put E2 for the Vengeful Treelord when it was supposed to be B2. Just for the record, Zen's spell mod switches around the treelord magics so that the one that used to have earth now has blood and vice versa, which accounts for some of the strangeness.

I'll fix the typos for the readme for the next Version.

Edi

[Turin]

Ivan Pedroso said:

lots of math sutff here

All this (crap ) just to say that in terms of income Growth+1 overtakes Order+1 after 125 turns. If you choose +3, Growth will ovetake Order at turn 115.

playtesting suggests that you have 1 zero too many, growth rate is 1,003 not 1,0003.
Secondly you have to factor in the administration bonus from castles, which incresaes with growth. If you do the test game you will see that growth�s income in a province with a watchtower will overtake order after turn 6 or 7. And after turn 10-11 the total accumulated income will be better than order�s.
Now growth has several other nice side effects(like better resource income, convenient bloodhunting/patrolling)
and that makes growth a nobrainer compared to order with that mod.

[atul]

Turin said:
playtesting suggests that you have 1 zero too many, growth rate is 1,003 not 1,0003.

Indeed, it would appear a province with 30 000 pop and growth3 dominion has an increase of 270 pop per turn - so growth would raise pop by 0.3% per scale. From the comments above, I assume it was meant to be only 0.03% increase per scale?

[ckfnpku]

I like (the idea of) the scales in the faeron test mod used in some of Soapyfrogs games. I haven't played 3 turns with them yet, so I don't know how balanced they are, but they seem to keep the flavor of the scales more, rather than mostly smudging the lines in the income department.

Those scales are:
order - effect on event freq is 3%
prod - 3% income, 25% resources
growth - 0.5% pop, 30% supply
luck - 15% event freq, 15% event good or bad

#turmoilevents 3

#deathsupply 30
#deathdeath 5

#slothincome 3
#slothresources 25

#misfortune 15
#luckevents 15