retro-multi-model construction???

[Grandpa Kim]

from Imperator Fyron

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
From spoon:

quote:

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It costs about 200k minerals to build a warp-opener (not a star-destroyer, I know...) in two turns using retro-series. Certainly not out of reach for most games I've played.

Okay, spoon, I'll bite. How can you do that in two turns!? Details please.

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Read the whole thread. [/QB][/quote]

Read the thread initially and have now re-read it. I'm no smarter. I still see no way to build a warp opener in only 2 turns, simul or turn-based.

_______

Okay, I figured a way to do it in turn based, and it is glossed over in this thread. Apologies to everyone.

[ March 01, 2003, 03:21: Message edited by: Grandpa Kim ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Be as dissatisfied as you want. I am stating the facts.

heh, not sure I'm dissatisfied. After all, it's these counter-intuitive, poorly documented, is-it-a-bug-or-is-it-a-feature type of minutia that keep me one step ahead of the riff-raff.

[Suicide Junkie]

GK: The answer is also partly in the title of the thread.

You build a cheap design that can be completed in 1 turn.

You then retrofit it to a design 50% more expensive.
You retrofit THAT to a design 50% more expensive than the Last.
Repeat as nessesary.
By the time you've doen it 10 times, you can be left with a ship 50x more expensive that the original hull.
Turn 2, you repair the components, and you now have 1 super-expensive ship completed way ahead of schedule and many times OVERbudget. Since you pay for both putting components in and taking them out, you've spent way more money than just building the thing straight up would have.

If you wanted to build a sphereworld in two turns using this method, it would cost somthing like 6 million resources instead of 300,000.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Grandpa Kim:
Okay, spoon, I'll bite. How can you do that in two turns!? Details please.

Glad you figured it out...
Two turns for any ship in Turn-Based, since there is not a limit on the number of times you can retrofit the same ship. More or less rendering the 150% limit meaningless.
In simultaneous games, about ten turns (just guessing) for a Star Destroyer. Eight for a Warp-point opener.
Cost is roughly double. I think.

I can imagine the conversations at Fleet Central:
High Wormlord: We need a Warp Point opener and we need it NOW!
Navy Command: Yessir! We are building an empty hull right now.
HW: Isn't it quicker to put the components in first?
NC: Oh no, we do that later. See, they are putting in the Ion Storm Generator now.
HW: But I want a warp-point opener!
NC: Right, but it is much faster to first install this Storm Generator, and then remove it after we pay the bill.
HW: What?!? Hey, why are you installing eight cloaking devices?
NC: Don't worry, we'll take them out as soon as they are paid for.
HW: I need a drink

-spoon

[spoon]

Originally posted by Suicide Junkie:

By the time you've doen it 10 times, you can be left with a ship 50x more expensive that the original hull.

If it was that bad, I wouldn't have a complaint. However, while testing it out, a warp-opener (~100k) cost less than 200k to retro-build. And I wasn't even trying to be efficient...

[Fyron]

It is only about 2x as expensive when doing a single step. When doing many steps, the costs get much higher.

[spoon]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is only about 2x as expensive when doing a single step. When doing many steps, the costs get much higher.

That was with six steps...

[jimbob]

Two turns for any ship in Turn-Based, since there is not a limit on the number of times you can retrofit the same ship. More or less rendering the 150% limit meaningless.

Oh, turnbased you can do it multiple times in a single turn! I had no idea! Yeah, seems a little unbalanced to me now...

In simultaneous games, about ten turns (just guessing) for a Star Destroyer. Eight for a Warp-point opener.

I have no problems with this however. Retrofitting once per turn seems reasonable to me.

[geoschmo]

Originally posted by spoon:

quote:

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Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
It is only about 2x as expensive when doing a single step. When doing many steps, the costs get much higher.

That was with six steps...

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Spoon, I don't think you are going to get much argument doing a retroseries in a turn based game is quite gamey. But the point everyone is trying to make is that that's against the AI. The argument could be made that anything you do against this AI is an unfair advantage, unless you let your cat play your turn for you. (Inside joke for forum oldtimers. )

But in a simultaneous turn game against other players, the retroseries becomes more expensive because you have to include in the cost of maintenance on your ship for all those turns while you do your thing.

Geoschmo

[Taera]

lol @ spoon's conversation
retroseries dont seem that much unbalancing to me though - especially in simul.