Opening Strategies

[geoschmo]

Bman,

I agree totally. I have played entire 100+ turn multi-player turn games never building a single resource storage facility. The only time it's ever been an issue is while retrofitting ships, and if you plan it right it's not a huge problem. It's really not a good idea to retrofit tons of ships at the same time anyway because the enemy could pick that moment to attack.

Geoschmo

[Phoenix-D]

*winces* yup. Trust me on that one. DON'T refit a lot of ships at once.

On resource storage- it's saved my butt more than once, especially when a loose a resource-producing world or two. Human oppponents like hitting those first. At the moment in Dimension X, I'd be broke in 2 turns without my storage facilites.

And therein lies another bit of advice: watch your flanks!

Phoenix-D

[baetis]

Thanks for the tips guys. I did build a few Mineral storage facilities and I'm glad I did. There are times when I'm building very few ships and I get massive surpluses in Minerals. Storing them makes me feel a little better

Baetis

[Bman]

quote:

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Originally posted by geoschmo:
Bman,

I agree totally. I have played entire 100+ turn multi-player turn games never building a single resource storage facility. The only time it's ever been an issue is while retrofitting ships, and if you plan it right it's not a huge problem. It's really not a good idea to retrofit tons of ships at the same time anyway because the enemy could pick that moment to attack.

Geoschmo

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Speaking of refitting in simultaneous games, has anyone else besides me noticed some bugs in the process? I've found that it is luck of the draw if you are refitting to a prototype design on whether it works successfully or not.
Sometimes the game comes back next turn and tells you the refit failed because you can only refit to the same size hull. Well duh. Given that the GUI only lets you pick the same-size hull in the refit list I could not possibly have gotten that wrong. Sometimes it comes back and says the designs are not similar enough in cost when I *know* they are. One time (in v1.41 game) it successfully refitted my ship. The catch was the new ship I had was not one of my designs! It was an organic ram-ship design by another empire and I was not even organic! That made for a useless ship since I could not repair it!

I have never had problems refitting ships to a design that was not a prototype (ie I had already constructed one beforehand). And in the first turn or two I tend not to have problems refitting ships to prototypes.

My current theory is that when you design a prototype it does not get put on the "main list of designs that exist in the game". Then when you choose to refit to a new design, the game stores the "design number" of the design in the orders. Since this prototype design is not in the main list of designs, the refit command gets a bogus design number. When the game is processed all the new designs are added to the "main list". The the refit order is processed and the bogus design number is used to lookup the design. More often than not, the design it finds is *not* the design you specified.

I have not tested this theory, but I suspect that if I design a prototype but do not try to refit to it until the next turn, that might allow time for the design to be put in the "main list" and thus might allow my refits to succeed.

Has any one else any experince with this?

[LGM]

quote:

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Originally posted by augustinetorres:
This all may sound obvious, but I'll give my 2 cents anyways.

SEIV is like any 4X game it's just a huge land grab. The key to winning is to expand, expand, expand. The best tactics won't beat an empire that has a larger economic base that can outspend and outresearch an opponent.

Build colony ships with your home planets almost exclusively. Switch to defensive ships when you have first contact - but continue to grow especially if your opponent is friendly - in a game with humans this almost always the case. The computer will invariably attack you until you get a treaty.

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I agree. Expand. I often build 10 colonizers the first 10 turns using emergency build. After that, I scrap my shipyard and build a Mineral mining facility with my homeworld at slow build.

Someone mentioned build defense first thing on a new colony. That would depended on number of players and galaxy size and if I can guard the planet with warships or not. My typical first builds are often Weapon Platform with Missles and a Shipyard.

You want to build shipyards so you can spend resources and build more colonizers. If you feel defenseless, set your colonizers to Ram. Colonizers usually win ramming with Escorts, especially scout types with only one weapon. If you see a Frigate or better, you are probably dead, might as well cripple them before you get shot down.

Once you get shipyards at your second tier worlds, start building colonizers at normal build (two turns). Depending on your production rate, you might only be able to build one colonizer a turn at your homeworld since you have population bonus there. If you cannot build a colonizer in two turns, redesign your race.

With your third tier of planets out from your homeworld you are probably getting close to someone. After you build shipyards, start building some armed ships at those.

When you start need more resource, use one of your shiphards to build a space port, if you can do it in two turns. Otherwise, any world will do.

Once you get one colony in a system, leap frog it with the next colonizer, Let the shipyard there seed those planets. It can build cheaper 3 or 4 engine colonizers to get to those planets quick enough.

Subsequent colonies in a system can build resources or research facilities. Extra shipyards if you are near someone.

Once a shipyard is no longer on a frontier, it can start building other facilities or orbital shipyards.

Around turn 20 or 30, you need to start building more warships and escorting them as there will be lots of dangeours ships out there by then.

As for research, I have found that Point Defense are an early must, in case you meet an agressive race early on. Missles + point defenses allow you to build Weapon Platforms that make planets costly to take out. ECM I is good to have early on too. Prop 3 will make your ships cheaper. Escort and Destroyer tech are good. DUC III+ are cheap to get weapons worth going for, unless you are going for missle attack ships. You can skip the weapons/arms stuff if you think players are passive and go for Research II, Solar Panels. Construction|Mines can be achieved rather quickly, which will defend your planets even better than weapon platforms. However, that will not give you warships capable of escorting colonizers once you meet a competing race.

Something new I have been toying with, but I am not sure if it is worth it yet. A colonizer with a Cargo II component can carry a Weapon Platform with it. That saves building one the first turn of a new colony.

Trade Colonization Techs with the first race you meet. This will give you more worlds to colonize.

If the first facility you build in a system is going to be a shipyard to seed the others, consider colonizing the lowest facility world first as that colony will be too busy to build other facilities.

One final note. Cargo Specialists can maintain the population bonus while skimming off colonists for each new colonizer. You can play with a smaller construction bonsus to build 10 colonizers in 10 turns with these races. Better be sure what your starting homeworld size will be before optimizing for these.

Some advocate building orbital shipyards at your homeworld instead of colonizers. Here is the problem: It will take 2 or 3 turns to build one of these. Then it will take 3 to 5 turns to build a colonizer at one of these. That means your first colonizer leaves your world at turn 6 to 9. By turn 9, I expect my second tier to be producing colonizers already.

[Trajan]

Gentlemen,

I am a short-time lurker, and first time caller, and am very new to this particular game, though I have plenty of experience in the genre.

My question regarding this game, and the opening moves is simple.

When playing SEIV Gold, do you find it more advantageous to rapidly expand to any planet that will support life? Or is it better not waisting precious initial colony ships on small planets with a very small ROI, and instead target your initial colony ships on breathable atmostphere planets -- that is assuming there are any within a reasonable distance.

Thanks!
Trajan

[Suicide Junkie]

As a general observation, as I expand, I usually colonize breathables one warp point jump ahead of the unbreathable-but-valuable worlds (size or resources). I take the tiny stinkholes with core-produced colony ships when rim system spaceyards start producing their own colony ships.

[Gryphin]

Of Storage Facilities and Avoiding Surplus
My method is to
Skip building the storage
Spend myself to the edge
By then I have always found an AI I can trade with
I will give 21,000 Organics for 20,000 Minerals
Works every time
Later in the game I might add some storage for big projects.

[Wardad]

quote:

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Originally posted by baetis:
[QB]Hey Folks,

...So i was wondering if there are any other things that you *always* do at the start of a game that might not be so obvious to a less experienced player.[QB]

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I haven't tested myself against human players, but I kick AI butt a dozen different ways.

I generally don't build escorts. I build small pop transports with a two-three sat launchers. Sometimes the transports are armed and sometimes they carry extra fuel.

I adapt my opening game strategy to my surroundings. Make the best use of what you have got.

Do I have colonizeable planets in system? Colonizer speed, build cost, and payload is adjusted for need.
Remember, I can ship population in my transports.

I play to the planet Bonuses (mining or research). Every domed colony could be great site for an early extra ship yard.

I have found a orbital ship yard is great for the little jobs. Producing SATs, Weapon platforms and Mines.

Research? Larger ships, DUC 3, PD, are all good choices. It will all depend on what your hostile neighbor is doing.

Defense? A little goes a long way in the early game. Better some than none. SATs placed in worm holes are trouble for missle using races (remember that small transport). Weapon Platforms can prevent an colony death from a passing scout.

EXPAND!!! My son never gets it. You have got to think long term and make investments in new colonies and infrastucture. You have got to take some short term risk and hope no one hits you too hard where and when you are weak.

Early War revenge! Bio weapons. Only need one bomb on a ship, leaving lots of room for armor, shields, and point defense. Use at least a level 3 bomb. The ship only has to bomb the planet once.


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So many ugly women, so much time. Got Beer?

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[Fyron]

Regarding Resource Storage Facilities:
No one has advocated building tons of them to store 2,000,000 resources. Just a few of these at huge planets of your atmosphere are all that is necessary. The small amount of resource production or research lost due to building them is insignificant. If your empire fails becuase of 1800 fewer resources, then you have not done a very good job at building it. And about retrofitting and stored resources: you should be retrofitting constantly, using a retro-series of ship designs to expedite the construction process.

Orbital Space Yards:
If you don't build these, then you will most likely lose to an experienced player that does build them. All else being equal, the player with the ability to produce more ships in a given time period will win. In one game I am in, a player started attacking me with around 18 ships (several of which are minesweepers, and there are a few carriers (which is really funny)). My main fleet of ships was on the other side of the galaxy. The 6 space yards at each of my homeworlds had just completed building a set of light cruisers, and with the planetary space yards, the total was 21 in that turn. Then, I set the stations to emergency build. They took 3 turns to complete the ships. So now, I have quickly built 39 light cruisers, and I will get at least 18 more in 3 turns. I am building new space yards to replace the ones I have now when the emergency build period ends. Sure, I lost a few under-developed fringe colonies, but my enemy will lose a lot more. I suspect that he has a poorly developed infrastructure. And btw, this game has only been going on for less than 40 turns.

Colony Ships:
Yes, it is good to build one or two before you get the space yards up, esp. for those large and huge planets near you. And so what if there are a few turns in which you aren't building any colony ships? After the space stations are done, you can build a lot more colony ships than someone without them. The best approach would be to combine the 2 strategies.