Man: A Bless nation in CBM 1.92?

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

Man only has A3 on 25% of its cap-only mages, who are also old and map-move 1.

Your not seriously saying that any A3 mage has deployment issues.

Originally Posted by Shardphoenix

Also, thunderstrike by itself isn`t going to win the game for you - you NEED A4 to get to real air magic (boosters, globals, high-end summons), while with water you can successfully climb a ladder starting from w2. And Man needs over 200 turns to reliably get 1 crone with A4.

Rubbish, CBM crones have been buffed to a little over 1.5% each of having A4, that's not an unplayable gamble, if you want to go that way. Taking risks or playing it safe is what makes pretender design interesting.

Playing a big bless almost always involves taking a risk.

[tratorix]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Rubbish, CBM crones have been buffed to a little over 1.5% each of having A4, that's not an unplayable gamble, if you want to go that way. Taking risks or playing it safe is what makes pretender design interesting.

1.5% is a real longshot, especially on a cap only mage. Not having reliable access to boosters for one of the only two magic paths you get really good access to is an issue. It's not a risk, it's "do you want your mages not to suck, y/n?"

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by tratorix

1.5% is a real longshot, especially on a cap only mage. Not having reliable access to boosters for one of the only two magic paths you get really good access to is an issue. It's not a risk, it's "do you want your mages not to suck, y/n?"

Rubbish, worst case is that it cost you 60 air gems to empower, hardly disastrous considering the boosters cost 25 each anyway.

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Rubbish, worst case is that it cost you 45 air gems to empower, hardly disastrous considering the boosters cost 25 each anyway.

Wrong again, it's 60 gems to empower from A3 to A4. With a 1.5% chance per recruitment, you still have a 50% chance of not having an A4 after 45 turns of crone recruitment. Crones aren't even that cheap, so it's unlikely you could have recruited 1 per turn from the very beginning.

And what does this have to do with Man being the best bless nation in the MA anyway? Have you presented an actual argument including bless and strategy for that yet?

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Shangrila00

Wrong again, it's 60 gems to empower from A3 to A4.

Lol, and yet my point is still entirely valid, at worst the gamble has cost me just 35 air gems...

And I'm guaranteed to be able to afford that from capital income by turn 30 if necessary.

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Lol, and yet my point is still entirely valid, at worst the gamble has cost me just 35 air gems...

And I'm guaranteed to be able to afford that from capital income by turn 30 if necessary.

No, it just cost you 60. What, with if you empower so you can forge boosters, you still need to forge the boosters. If you take turn 30 as the latest you can wait before empowering, and you manage to recruit one crone per turn from turn 1 be damned to expansion or fort building, that'll happen in 2 out of 3 games.

[legowarrior]

What about the pretender make the first air booster? That would save you some money. An Air bless isn't best, but 75% shock resistant on the Wardens might be a good thing.

Titan, Imprisoned, 9 Air/9 Earth, 2 Production, 1 Growth, 2 Drain, 1 Heat Domain 6 can be done. Air Boosters can be made. End game would suck, but you summon cyclops and Aesir I think.

[Nightfall]

Originally Posted by Shangrila00

If you take turn 30 as the latest you can wait before empowering.

Not only did I not say that, it's a bad assumption, at turn 30, a heavy bless, with basic support, should still be dominating.

[Shardphoenix]

Originally Posted by Mightypeon

In MA Mans defense, Sleepers are comparable to Banes although a fair bit more expensive.

No, they are not. They lack Bane`s 0 enc., prophetizing them doesn`t give you reanimation abilities and they are vulneurable to numbness/frozen heart.

It also has a 2 decent evocations (Sleep Cloud and Storm of Thorns) of which one is quite early.

And the second one comes when everyone else is already entering endgame.

If you wish to expend some gems, Nature has the very useful Swarm and Howl Spells. Summoning Sprites also has significant niche uses.

Sure, nature magic is nice to have - but saying that it is comparable to death...

Last but not least it also gets Faeri Queens.

Roughly, a copy of your cap-only mage... For a ton of gems. I think, I`ll pass.

It is also a nice forging path. With regen gear, reinvig gear, and one highly usefull anti thug weapon (Axe of hate).

But you still lack astral for luck and AMA.

I think CBM was quite succesfull in boosting formerly weak nations such as MA Man and MA ulm into competetive levels, labelling MA Man as overpowered is quite the insult to the likes of Pythium or Shinuyama though.[/quote]

Your not seriously saying that any A3 mage has deployment issues.

More like "quantity and mortality issues". They die like flies outside of Growth-3 dominion, and you don`t have enough of them to easily replace.

Rubbish, worst case is that it cost you 45 air gems to empower...

Rubbish, you aren`t going to have that many spare air gems as Man. And air boosters are the most expensive ones.

[Shangrila00]

Originally Posted by Nightfall

Not only did I not say that, it's a bad assumption, at turn 30, a heavy bless, with basic support, should still be dominating.

So did you have a point to make here? I've already pointed out how you aren't getting better than 50% odds until turn 45. You've yet to present this super duper bless that would let Man sweep all before them without needing battle magic well into year 3, except that it's not E9. I assume it at least includes D9 or F9 since with neither battle magic nor magic weapons, ethereality and/or mistform would wreck unlimited number of Wardens.