Traitors! Team Game! 1 Captain, 1 Player needed!

[Ragnars Wolves]

I chose Arco 6 points

[Wrana]

Hm. For now:
Arcoscephales 15, Ulm 15.
Lanka default 20.
I may think up something else (like my favourite Helheim), but these are my bids for now.
I hope I wouldn't have to be a captain, but may do it if more experienced players are lacking. Septimius?

[chrispedersen]

Wrana, I have you in for ulm at 15 (3 more than the minimum). You will switch over to Lanka at +0 (20) if someone out bids you on Ulm.

Your Arco bid is not 10 more than Ragnars. He beat you by seconds =).

[Pelthin]

I guess I will bid Ermor: 20

I know it is high, but I want to see how this plays out.

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

Your Arco bid is not 10 more than Ragnars. He beat you by seconds =).

You didn't say that the minimum to outbid was to bid 10 more. OK, you may consider it to be exactly 10 more for now.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by Wrana

I hope I wouldn't have to be a captain, but may do it if more experienced players are lacking. Septimius?

Wrana, I think your probably near the same experience level as me. I may have more team game experience, but you probably have more MP experience. I am sure you can handle it though. But if I am needed to join or captain a team I am available, don't know for how long though.

Being captain is not all that scary as it seems, it is really just an administrative label. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, depending upon your play philosophy and management style. A team can be as democratic or as centralized as desired. Can be easy going or dead serious. Experience is desirable for a captain of course, but so is free time, energy level, motivation, communication skills, etc.

When players (or captains) choose their teammates it can help to eliminate some internal disagreements, but there is also something to be said for getting to know and working with players you've never played cooperatively with before. It forges new relationships. You don't really know a player till you've played on the same team with them.

Since chris hasn't set up pre-made teams (with names, identities and so forth), I am guessing he is letting players and potential captains organize themselves into teams.

Questions for Chris:

Can a captain bid his points (or more points) in an attempt to ensure the loyalty of his own team members? "Counter Traitorism"

Can traitors at some point decide to go "straight" and return their allegiance to their original team? Or has provision made for whether their allegiance can shift, be bought, or offered for sale, to other captains at some point in the game (perhaps for a certain amount of gold)?

[militarist]

I will be off this game, want to make some break.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Wrana, I think your probably near the same experience level as me. I may have more team game experience, but you probably have more MP experience. I am sure you can handle it though. But if I am needed to join or captain a team I am available, don't know for how long though.

Being captain is not all that scary as it seems, it is really just an administrative label. You can make it as hard or as easy as you want, depending upon your play philosophy and management style. A team can be as democratic or as centralized as desired. Can be easy going or dead serious. Experience is desirable for a captain of course, but so is free time, energy level, motivation, communication skills, etc.

When players (or captains) choose their teammates it can help to eliminate some internal disagreements, but there is also something to be said for getting to know and working with players you've never played cooperatively with before. It forges new relationships. You don't really know a player till you've played on the same team with them.

Since chris hasn't set up pre-made teams (with names, identities and so forth), I am guessing he is letting players and potential captains organize themselves into teams.

Questions for Chris:

Can a captain bid his points (or more points) in an attempt to ensure the loyalty of his own team members? "Counter Traitorism"

Can traitors at some point decide to go "straight" and return their allegiance to their original team? Or has provision made for whether their allegiance can shift, be bought, or offered for sale, to other captains at some point in the game (perhaps for a certain amount of gold)?

Captains compete only against other captains for their choice of nations. Captains also are the only ones who can earn traitor points.

Yes; a captain can spend points on his own team members. A captain wins all ties. So if Sept as captain, and Wrana as captain both bid 1 point on a team member - that team member stays allied with his nominal team.

Traitors cannot decide to go straight. They will win with their actual team.

[chrispedersen]

Example:

Suppose there are three nominative teams:

Wrana's Wraiders
Septs Vestal Virgins
Igor 'orribles.

The three captains bid: With the outcome the Igor bids 50 points for Niefle; Wrana bids 45 points for Hinnom and Sept bids 5 points for EA Agartha.

Teams are arranged. After all the player bids it works out like this:



Igor (Niefle)
Dr.P: Ulm 10
Micah: Hellheim 25
Hoplo: Vanheim 15

Sept: (Agartha)
Squirrel: Mictlan 35
Frank Toll: Abysia 25
Gandalf: Sauromatia 65


Wrana (Hinnom)
MadFrancis Fomoria 25
JimMorrison: Ctis 20
Grudge: Arco 25


So each captain receives 1 traitor point. Additionally, Sept tells me on top of his 5 point bid he will not spend 120 MORE points... for a total cost of 125. He will have a total of 4 traitor points.

Wrana says that he will not use an additional 40 points: 2 traitor points.

Igor says that *he* will not use 40 poitns.. 2 traitor points.


The captains each secretly tell me their traitor point allocation
suppose it was like this:

Igor (Niefle)
Dr.P: Ulm
Micah: Hellheim IS
Hoplo: Vanheim W

Sept: (Agartha)
Squirrel: Mictlan IS
Frank Toll: Abysia
Gandalf: Sauromatia


Wrana (Hinnom)
MadFrancis Fomoria SS W
JimMorrison: Ctis
Grudge: Arco

So, here's how it works out.

Mad Francis *secretly* is working for Sept.
Hoplo is secretly working for Wrana.

Hoplo can only win - if wrana wins. Mad Francis will only win, once sept's team gets the requisite 1/2 +1 capitols. They only need 7.. they have 5! (Might have to play with that VP worked better with 4 teams).

Still .. Agartha AND giving up 125 points.. will he lose??

The players and the captains will be told who they are really working for.
Although, I'm tempted to only tell the players - to make it a REAL backstabbing game.

[Septimius Severus]

Regarding your above example, if I understand correctly (and I am guessing the I,S,W refer to the captains bids), I've spent 2 traitor points on Mad Francis which is why I have won him rather than Wrana (SS stands for 2 bids). And the traitor point bids on Mictlan and Helheim have cancelled each other out so those players remain loyal to their teams.

Any thought given to how the co-opted player might feel about playing the traitor role (given they have no choice in the matter)? Especially since that player would be the subject of immediate attack by his compatriots if discovered.

I am guessing overall, the effect of the combo of unspent design points spent on pretenders and on traitor points, a captain will likely want/need to go with a rainbow/immobile or other cheapo or non-awake pretender, particularly if they want a "power" nation and/or want to ensure they can buy some allies or ensure the loyalty of their crew, unless they don't mind taking some hits on their scales or magic.

Hmm, as an aside, I guess the object of your pretender point bidding and the various point schemes I've seen for nation selection is an attempt to ensure fairness in the competition for the perceived "power" nations. Looks like it might be useful in non-team games especially, not so sure if it is the optimal way to go in team games though. I do wonder if it doesn't favor veterans or more experienced players (especially in non-team games), as rank noobs would not be well versed in pretender choices, nation selection, which nations are "better", and the many subleties of pretender design.