Bless nation recommendation, please

[LDiCesare]

Originally Posted by 13lackGu4rd

in your first post you wanted a bless nation that isn't a blood nation. that pretty much excludes all the classic EA bless rushes and their successors: Niefelheim, Vanheim, Helheim, Sauromatia, Lanka and Mictlan. thus for EA you don't have much left, unless you agree to be at least a partial blood nation(which is very good cause you get access to the awsome blood items and some summons too) you should aim at MA/LA instead. MA Mictlan, unlike the other Mictlans is not a blood nation, however its Jaguar Warriors are cap only, unlike the others, so it's weaker for a bless nation but still solid. Marigonon's Knights of the Chalice as mentioned above are a good choice, LA Tien Ch'is Ancestor Vessels are considered to be the best heavy cavalry in the game, so certainly worth a bless as well. there are a few, but a bit weaker alternatives such as Kailasa(EA) or Machaka(MA).

but in all honesty, if you want a bless strategy you should go for EA and at least a partial blood nation...

NO.
EA T'ien Chi is a very decent bless nation.
MA Mictlan has recruitable everywhere eagle warriors, who are different from but as effective as, if not more than, jaguar warriors.

[13lackGu4rd]

Originally Posted by LDiCesare

but in all honesty, if you want a bless strategy you should go for EA and at least a partial blood nation...

NO.
EA T'ien Chi is a very decent bless nation.
MA Mictlan has recruitable everywhere eagle warriors, who are different from but as effective as, if not more than, jaguar warriors.[/quote]

yes EA TC can be a bless nation, but it's not a bless rush nation! EA TC's bless is better in the late game than as a rush tactic, as such a rush would be ridiculous against a real bless rush... as for MA Mictlan, Jaguar Warriors>Eagle Warriors as far as bless rushing goes, and Eagle Warriors are harder to use effectively, seeing that the OP is a new player. EA and LA Mictlan can spam Jags like there's no tomorrow from all its forts, MA Mictlan can spam Eagle Warriors instead, which makes it inferior to the other 2 as far as a bless rush goes...

[LDiCesare]

yes EA TC can be a bless nation, but it's not a bless rush nation! EA TC's bless is better in the late game than as a rush tactic, as such a rush would be ridiculous against a real bless rush... as for MA Mictlan, Jaguar Warriors>Eagle Warriors as far as bless rushing goes, and Eagle Warriors are harder to use effectively, seeing that the OP is a new player. EA and LA Mictlan can spam Jags like there's no tomorrow from all its forts, MA Mictlan can spam Eagle Warriors instead, which makes it inferior to the other 2 as far as a bless rush goes...

Well, the OP never mentions rushing.
Then again, you mentioned Lanka. My experience T'ien Chi vs. Lanka goes in favor of T'ien Chi in terms of early warfare.
As for jag warriors > eagle warriors, I disagree. For instance fighting Ashdod, I found eagle warriors far superior because they could hiit adonim before these had buffed themselves and effectively become invulnerable to the jags.

[thejeff]

Helheim can be played, especially in SP, as a straight bless nation. They've got minimal Blood, but it's usually ignored early on and just provides a few more options in the midgame.

LA Atlantis plays well with a bless, though it's not as overwhelming as the more traditional bless nations. Baalz has a guide for it.

[thejeff]

Actually for a rush, the Mictlan's are roughly equal. MA Mictlan has Jaguar Warriors from the capital. That's all you need for a rush.
At least as I understand rush. A rush is essentially trying to take out another nation as part of/instead of expansion against indies. A good rush will hit as early as possible, before your enemy has any anti-rush research done. You're not going to have a second castle up and contributing in time. You need to be throwing those resources into offense.

[BigDaddy]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Actually for a rush, the Mictlan's are roughly equal. MA Mictlan has Jaguar Warriors from the capital. That's all you need for a rush.
At least as I understand rush. A rush is essentially trying to take out another nation as part of/instead of expansion against indies. A good rush will hit as early as possible, before your enemy has any anti-rush research done. You're not going to have a second castle up and contributing in time. You need to be throwing those resources into offense.

If I'm having a good game, I'll have a fort or 2 in the works, but yes, they won't be contributing to that force.

[sansanjuan]

Originally Posted by ebenweb

Hi all,

I'm a NOOB and am having a hard time finding a nation to play with what the forum members consider units worthy of a bless strategy.

I thought Pythium would be alright--I figured a good Water bless would make their sacred units very difficult to hit and counterbalance their lack of armour--but have read guides that say they're not good enough to be focused on. I was playing with C'tis using a high water bless on their sacred serpents and that seemed pretty effective early-game, but again read conflicting strategy guides.

Can someone give some examples of GOOD bless strategies? I'd like to play a nation that doesn't use blook magic as I want to keep things simple, and I like the idea of a pretender who is mobile but am happy to make them dormant.

Cheers,

Eben

Eb,
Perhaps a bit of topic...
A good thing to remember is that blesses become less of a tilt late game. Many blesses become redundant and even superseded by mass battlefield spells (army of lead/gold, fog warriors, mass regeneration, will of fates, reinvig spells, etc.). You are trading that bless off for an early pretender and/or good scales. That's not to say bless strategies are worse than scales/research/rainbow strategies only that you'd better take advantage early with that edge you've purchased so dearly. I remember I had W9/N9 Jotuns which carved most everything till about turn 20ish. However my research sucked and by mid game my armies of blessed Jotuns were flaming pincushions and heat fatigued into oblivion. Lesson is to avoid being a one trick pony. The gold that comes with scales buys forts and researchers and all the later game options. Heavy blesses are fun and viable but have a mid game plan "B".
My $0.02
-ssj

[Aleph]

I do think E9W9 Lanka is pretty forgiving... research to construction 4 for skull mentors and then up to Blood 6 while mashing faces with your excellent sacred heavy infantry. The Dakini can Cloud Trapeze, are fantastic thugs with snake bladder sticks and vine shields and a few air buffs, and aren't pricey for the damage they cause.

Probably one of the best-rounded nations in the game is MA Ermor. You can learn so much about the game... the power and weaknesses of huge hordes of undead, the strength of communions with lots of holy spells from slaves, and how to move steadily up the Death magic ladder. They also bless nicely with S9... as cap-only troops Shadow Vestals are probably not a good choice for a heavy bless, but Ethereal + Twist Fate will really help your starting expansion, without the need for an SC pretender which can be nerve-wracking for newer players (and me, whenever said pretender is not immortal).

[ebenweb]

Originally Posted by sansanjuan

Eb,
Perhaps a bit of topic...
A good thing to remember is that blesses become less of a tilt late game. Many blesses become redundant and even superseded by mass battlefield spells (army of lead/gold, fog warriors, mass regeneration, will of fates, reinvig spells, etc.). You are trading that bless off for an early pretender and/or good scales. That's not to say bless strategies are worse than scales/research/rainbow strategies only that you'd better take advantage early with that edge you've purchased so dearly. I remember I had W9/N9 Jotuns which carved most everything till about turn 20ish. However my research sucked and by mid game my armies of blessed Jotuns were flaming pincushions and heat fatigued into oblivion. Lesson is to avoid being a one trick pony. The gold that comes with scales buys forts and researchers and all the later game options. Heavy blesses are fun and viable but have a mid game plan "B".
My $0.02
-ssj

Cheers, mate. In the end I went with Pythium MA and played my first "real" game. Took an E9/F5 forge lord and have waded through the enemy pretty easily on normal difficulty. Stacking up communicants with Theurgs and pumping out Thunder Strikes is lots of fun, although in hindsight I think the Earth bless may be redundant with Communicant Slave/Master spells--I haven't really done the math.

[13lackGu4rd]

how does TC vs Lanka go in favour of TC? assuming both go for a bless strategy...? Palashankas>Warriors of the 5 Elements by a lot... as fpr Ashdod, yes that's the unique situation that doesn't say a lot about the whole, not to mention that Ashdod is MA only(Mictlan is all ages) and Ashdod is usually banned anyway because of its OPness... so I find it pretty irrelevant to the discussion, and ridiculous as your only reason to say Eagle Warriors>Jaguar Warriors... also remember that in a rush neither you or your enemy has time to get those critical buffs, and even if so the early buffs(say Alt 3) aren't all that bad(for the rusher that is), especially with a Fire bless(bypasses Ethereal and Mistform).