Are battles always one sided? - Page 3

capnq · #21 October 15th, 2001, 10:10 PM

quote:
That's why I always play religious tech - that Talisman can be a HUGE factor in combat....

Assuming you can survive long enough to research it...

quote:
Once I've seen my ships (with order to fire at optimum range) moving away from the enemies right next to them FIRST and THEN fire on them (and missed)

I think that's because "optimum" range includes minimizing the potential damage the enemy can do, according to the manual.

------------------
Cap'n Q
My first mod! Hypermaze quadrant
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"

Suicide Junkie · #22 October 15th, 2001, 10:19 PM

quote:
BTW when is the 30% added? Does it guarantee a 31% to-hit, no matter what?

Yes. Yes it does

I was playing a game once where I took max -ve on offense, didn't bother to research sensors, and kept "max range" strategies.

I had maxed out defensiveness, ECM, and was running up stealth tech, and using small ships (defense bonus), so nobody could hit me, and it worked out great.

Using Quantum Torpedoes (+15% to +25% accuracy in P&N, as tech improves):
I got a 16% to 26% to hit, and they were letting fly with 1% accuracy, even at point-blank, against my torpedo frigates

Cheeze · #23 October 15th, 2001, 10:40 PM

It is annoying when battles are repeatedly blowouts, particularly when there are large fleets of ships with seeming equal firepower. The combat sequence bug that the lower number player always goes first is something that ought to be fixed. I guess if the damage results would be simultaneous would be the most fair. Even adjusting for weapon types, accuracy, training and the like and strategies, the vast battle imbalances seems very odd and unfair.

On the formations, I guess it would be nice if one fix could be made: A lead ship changing direction would cause the other ships to change relative positions in their fleet. How often does a fleet get demolished because the lead ship turns around, and the other ships get roasted as they change places.

geoschmo · #24 October 15th, 2001, 10:43 PM

quote:
Originally posted by suicide_junkie:

Quote:

BTW when is the 30% added? Does it guarantee a 31% to-hit, no matter what?
Yes. Yes it does
I was playing a game once where I took max -ve on offense, didn't bother to research sensors, and kept "max range" strategies.

I had maxed out defensiveness, ECM, and was running up stealth tech, and using small ships (defense bonus), so nobody could hit me, and it worked out great.

Using Quantum Torpedoes (+15% to +25% accuracy in P&N, as tech improves):
I got a 16% to 26% to hit, and they were letting fly with 1% accuracy, even at point-blank, against my torpedo frigates

Of course that strategy can backfire on you. I tried something similer in a game once. I had Frigate's and a few destroyers with tailsman's. I figured I could stay at max range and with my defensive bonuses he wouldn't land many hits before my tailsman powered weapons had chewed him up.

What I didn't know was this was a fleet that had just returned from a succesful mission against a race that used a lot of missles. His fleet and ships were legendary which negated my defensive bonuses. So my disadvantage in ship size and tech shined through glaringly.

Geoschmo

[This message has been edited by geoschmo (edited 15 October 2001).]

geoschmo · #25 October 15th, 2001, 10:48 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Lynx:
It is annoying when battles are repeatedly blowouts, particularly when there are large fleets of ships with seeming equal firepower. The combat sequence bug that the lower number player always goes first is something that ought to be fixed. I guess if the damage results would be simultaneous would be the most fair. Even adjusting for weapon types, accuracy, training and the like and strategies, the vast battle imbalances seems very odd and unfair.

True this is a problem, although it really only affects warp point battles

quote:
On the formations, I guess it would be nice if one fix could be made: A lead ship changing direction would cause the other ships to change relative positions in their fleet. How often does a fleet get demolished because the lead ship turns around, and the other ships get roasted as they change places.

I agree with you on this one. I hate this. I have started setting all ships to break formation. Every ship for itself seems to work better in large ship battles than trying to keep them in formation.

Geoschmo

Suicide Junkie · #26 October 15th, 2001, 11:24 PM

Yeah, running up against a fleet of Legendaries would have been trouble, but I had a minimum maintenance race, with over 2/3rds of my fleet in mothballs, so I could easily replace my 10-FG/DS WP patrol with a 50-LC/BC annihilator force for a few turns

Also, that was 1% at point blank, so moving to max torpedo range (6) would cancel the 50% legendary bonus

Cyrus · #27 October 16th, 2001, 01:41 AM

If his fleet was legendary I think it's at, at least, 30 Experience. Then you have to figure most of the ships in the fleet would probably be around 20 or so experience (the max you can train at a training facility). So, due to experience, his ships would gain a +50% to hit and a +50% to defense. This is a huge advantage, if he can keep your ships at max range you have something like a 1% chance to hit him while he would have something like a 50% or 60% chance to hit. I would imagine that this is why your 100 ships bit the dust. Also, keep in mind that Battle Cruisers probably have 20-25% more firepower than a Cruiser, so instead of him facing 3 - 1 odds it was more like 2 - 1 odds.

Dragonlord · #28 October 16th, 2001, 04:22 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Rich04:
Tweaking Ship/Fleet Strategy is very important.
In my 1st PBW game I lost several battles that looked even without inflicting significant losses to the enemy fleet. Upon viewing the battles I finally figured out what was happening. My ships were failing to kill off damaged ships. They would fire until the opponent was disabled and move on to the next target. The opponent had enough repair ships to fix his fleet each turn. This is the default setting for SE4 and what very often turns a battle into a one sided slaughter. If your opponent has more ships you will almost always lose without inflicting any losses, all else being equal.

Uhm AFAIK, repairs don't get made during combat. Only after combat. So I think it's a perfectly viable strategy to use the "fire till no more weapons" option, disable his ships, then hunt down the sitting ducks once none of them can fire back anymore.
In fact the only time I can imagine you would NOT want to use this option is if the fleets involved are so large (and/or slow) that you can't disable, hunt down and then destroy everything within 30 combat turns.

Anybody? Why is "fire until weapons gone" not turned on by default?

Rich04 · #29 October 16th, 2001, 04:42 AM

I never said they repaired during combat Dragonlord.

What was happening was my 30 ship fleet engaged a 50 ship fleet with enough repair ships to repair 40+ components each turn. Every time my fleet engaged they were wiped out without inflicting any losses or even slowing the opposing fleet. This happened 3 turns in a row. My ships even had the edge tech wise. Each engagement disabled a dozen or more enemy ships. If they had finished them off the attacking fleet would have been whittled down each turn rather than total blowouts. I might have won the second engagement and if not for sure the third one for by then 'I' would have had the larger fleet.

Gimboid · #30 October 16th, 2001, 04:59 AM

quote:
Of course that strategy can backfire on you. I tried something similer in a game once. I had Frigate's and a few destroyers with tailsman's. I figured I could stay at max range and with my defensive bonuses he wouldn't land many hits before my tailsman powered weapons had chewed him up.

What I didn't know was this was a fleet that had just returned from a succesful mission against a race that used a lot of missles. His fleet and ships were legendary which negated my defensive bonuses. So my disadvantage in ship size and tech shined through glaringly.

Geoschmo

True it backfired that time. But what if your fleet had had the legendary bonus (and mine hadn't)?

The word 'unstoppable' comes to mind... small ships (virtually) unhittable but that always hit with direct fire weapons.

My homeworlds would have died as fast as you could get your ships down to my homesystem.