Worst Nations in Each Era

[Omnirizon]

Originally Posted by Wrana

By the way, Fog Warriors also easily counter Banishment.
Of course, Shinuyama is still better. I think the problem is that lesser Oni are just too pricey to be really useful. But then, if they would be more easily massable, it could be overkill... As for Banishing demons it's quite thematic and Oni MR is on par with other Demons.
Considering nations:
EA: Agartha, I think. Maybe Fomoria.
MA: Oceania, until...
LA: Patala. Maybe Arcoscephales - I just don't see Sybils as good substitute for what they had earlier...

I don't think it's necessarily thematic. it's not too hard to find tales of demons who are not susceptible to generic holy powers, who laugh in the face of such power, even utilize it for their own ends. I think it would be both thematic and more balanced if demons were not effected by banish, leaving only the H2 spell smite demon. Rarely are masses of demons used as troops, therefore banish on demons is really a non-factor for gameplay. Only Yomi will really be effected by this, and since it is banish spam which causes them to be considered weak in MP, I think it would be healthy for game play to simply not have demons effected by banish.

[vfb]

Lanka's Palankasha have MR12 compared to Yomi's 13/14/15 for size 1/2/3 demons.

[statttis]

Yomi's demons already have 14/15 MR. A spell to increase that would probably make them too strong - 17+ MR seems to be reserved for powerful commanders and elite sacred troops. If Yomi had some decent non-demon troops I don't think banish would be a big issue.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by MaxWilson

Fomoria has recruitable, giant SCs which are Mistform + Soul Vortex-capable and can Cloud Trapeze. Not weak.

-Max

Great endame with death access, giant chassis, morrigans:

Top third in strength.

[P3D]

Originally Posted by Wrana

EA: Agartha, I think. Maybe Fomoria.

Disagree with Agartha being weakest. With proper pretender design one can address most weaknesses, then you have sacred giants recruitable everywhere and Blade Wind spam.

Ermor is weak in EA. While having good expansion speed, there's not that much for midgame.

[Poopsi]

Don't augurs have potentially (AKA, if all the randoms fit right) 2-3D? that should give EA Ermor leverage to get into death magic.

[chrispedersen]

Originally Posted by P3D

Disagree with Agartha being weakest. With proper pretender design one can address most weaknesses, then you have sacred giants recruitable everywhere and Blade Wind spam.

Ermor is weak in EA. While having good expansion speed, there's not that much for midgame.

Middle game with EA-Ermor *is* often a weakness. Yet, I think they are way strong enough not to be considered the weakest.

I wrote up a thread on them - I consider them quite ok.

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Omnirizon

Rarely are masses of demons used as troops, therefore banish on demons is really a non-factor for gameplay. Only Yomi will really be effected by this, and since it is banish spam which causes them to be considered weak in MP, I think it would be healthy for game play to simply not have demons effected by banish.

Lanka has masses of demon troops, and so does any blood nation spamming Summon Imp or Lifelong Protection, or with Soul Contracts. Thematically I like the idea, but there might be balance problems.

-Max

[Dragar]

I don't see a reason to change how banish works, i think its perfectly thematic and balanced in general. Yomi just needs to be improved a little, either given some reasonable non-demon troops, or improve the demons slightly. That can be MR, a national spell, or some other improvement to balance against the banish susceptibility

[MaxWilson]

Originally Posted by Poopsi

Don't augurs have potentially (AKA, if all the randoms fit right) 2-3D? that should give EA Ermor leverage to get into death magic.

Augur Elders have 2F1S2D + 110% FASD, so they can get up to 4D, and can be 3D easily. Ermor will have trouble forging Rings of Sorcery without Pretender help (only 2S randoms reliably, and Starshine Skullcap but not Crystal Coin), so unless they win the artifacts race their best bet for high D is to go through Enchantment to summon demi-liches (3D Augur Elder forges skull staff, use staff to forge skullface to get to 5D, give staff and skullface to demilich to get 6D). May need to empower a lich to get 7D for tartarians, or else empower a 3S Augur Elder to 4S (45 pearls) so he can use a starshine skullcap to forge a Ring of Wizardry. Not prohibitively expensive.

As far as battle magic goes, though, you're probably fine just sticking to 3D or 4D (with staff), which is plenty to cast Rigor Mortis or Plague or Wailing Winds or Wind of Death.

-Max