MP: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!

[Lavaere]

have you thought about starting with more then 1 region

[rdonj]

Originally Posted by Stretch

Oh, right, you have almost 1000 posts on this forum. Whoops. You certainly seemed to know what you were talking about on the noob forum, I was thinking 'damn, I wish this guy was around earlier'.

A smaller game would be something like

Rdonj, the great communicator, awakes from a long imprisonment to find the world a twisted shadow. Its dewy innocence has been plundered by the rampaging vets, and the noob races toil under the harsh yoke of slavery. As the years passed, two of the five lords of old grew sated with the spoils of war, and through dark rituals, transcended to another plane to search for the missing Pantokrator.

The remaining vets ponder their future as their depraved servants rule in their stead. They withdraw into their gleaming castles, and slowly the land returns to scattered fiefdoms ruled by independent barons. The taxes flow into the vet capitals, but their eyes turn towards the stars and they ponder following their two departed brethren.

Unbeknownst to them, the spirits of some old noob pretenders have found new hosts. They awaken to find the world hazy and indistinct, as many things have changed since last they roamed the world. They wait, poised to take a new capital from one of the many fiefdoms, and seek vengeance.

Will the noob menace force the vets to gaze once more upon this world, or will they follow their peers into the stars, leaving the battle to another seasoned warlord? What side will Rdonj lend his aid to? Have the noobs learned enough from their imprisonment to end the threat of vet tyranny once and for all?

Something to keep in mind if you don't get your full 16/7 complement, Septimus.

Lol. I'm not that great, I am just good at absorbing information. But I don't count myself as a noob anymore, which is why I stayed out of noobs vs vets 2. Doesn't mean I don't still have, well, a lot of bad habits.

And I was around the entire time since I was doing a lot of the maintenance. I was providing advice most of the game, not so much early on though since you guys weren't really being that informative and I had no real idea how the game was going until I stepped in for fomoria. Reading the vet forum right now I'm getting a much better picture overall of the game. So I just chimed in when people were looking for ideas.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by TheDemon

18:6 is literally 3:1 so saying its slightly a bit more than 2:1 is a bit off. 17:7 would make more sense.

That was a typo. 18:6 is 3:1 you are correct.

[Septimius Severus]

Stretch and QM:
We basically had the same noob team size in both NvV and NvV II (10). We didn't have any issues in the first game but had some bad luck in II. In addition to the informal expansion groups I mentioned, this time around any player not participating in the forum and coordinating with neigbors will be replaced. I'm not tolerating it anymore. So you guys needn't worry.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by Lavaere

have you thought about starting with more then 1 region

Never really considered it. It would tend to shorten the initial contact period I would think and apply to both noobs and vets alike. Unless there is a way to start just the noobs with 2 regions.

Giving the noobs good starting provinces (rivers, farms, etc.) would give an initial boost to the noobs and help even out the expansion gap. I'd like to see both teams expanding at even pace, whatever we can do to achieve this lets do it.

If the vets are against it though I might tie it into the story line and provide it as a bonus for those noobs and vets who take nations from NvV II (I.e. Vanheim, Ermor, Ashdod). Though I don't see why they would be.

I think first come, first serve nation selection is quickest and fairest. Just be quick and you get what you want. 2 phases (Alternates first) then the rest of us.
Keep those suggestions coming though.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by Stretch

I'm not sure who from the noob side is interested in playing some more but I'd like to do more strategizing with the 6-7 other noobs who were active on the messageboards (counting rdonj and Grudgebringer in that) and play 4 or so vets. TheDemon said that some of them were getting pretty good... why not even the stakes a bit in terms of players per team and get us all on an equal playing field in terms of communication and having at least a basic idea of how to play the game.

I was thinking of something like that too. After this game is finished and the trilogy is complete (and I can retire from admining). A post NvV game featuring noob graduates vs vets on an 1:1 basis. Rdonj could organize and admin as well as playing in it if so desired. Rdonj, Grudge, Lavaere, myself, Darloth are the only ones so far that have participated in the entire series so far. But pyg, or anyone else who had participated and feels they learned enough could also participate. If rdonj didn't want to I suppose I could come out of retirement to do so.

Good story writing btw Stretch. Heh. Slave revolts always involve massive numbers, that is the one thing they have on their side versus their masters.

[rdonj]

Lumenplacidum was in both games as well. I'm on the fence about playing. On the one hand, it would be great fun. On the other hand, I'm trying to cut down on my dominions time and focus on other things so I really shouldn't. I'd have to see about it if/when we got there.

I think first come, first serve nation selection is quickest and fairest. Just be quick and you get what you want. 2 phases (Alternates first) then the rest of us.
Keep those suggestions coming though.

What if both teams submit a list, with nations in order of preference. The vet team gets their first pick. Then the noob team gets their first pick, unless it's the vet team's first pick, in which case they get their second pick. And so on. Or you could do it pretty much the same way, but organized by player and the player gets their first/second. You'd still be giving the nation picking advantage to the vet team, but the process would probably go faster and allow the noobs to deny the vets some of the tougher nations. You'd probably have to run the lists through a third party though, to prevent anyone from trying to game the system by making alterations based on the other teams list.

[Lavaere]

each team makes a list. then we go down the lists. vets top choice, noobs top choice, and we keep alternating like that. if the nation is taken you go to there next pick down the list.
once the nations have been chosen this way. just hand them out to your members.

[LumenPlacidum]

Has there been a decision as to the Age being played? I know we haven't done a Mid Era game, and I kind of want to try out one of those angel-summoning nations (lol, if I survive to that point).

As far as settings, any situation where we're throwing more resources and gold into the game is an advantage for the veteran players. Anyone can spend money, but the more you have, the more benefit you get if you spend it efficiently! It's much easier to manage your resources when inexperienced if those resources are relatively sparse. As such, I'm in favor of having standard gold and standard resources.

For nation picks, I think Lavaere's idea of having teams alternate picks is probably good. The vets will organize anyway, but it'll help the Noob team to try to decide how to cover the bases of what we can manage to do before the game starts, so that we end up actually having top picks in the first place.

Dropping magic site frequency is probably a good idea for the same reason as the gold/resources thing above, except that it's far easier to waste gems than gold.

Starting with more than one province is an interesting possibility. I'm not sure what the long-term effects of that would be except that they'd make nations with relatively expensive cap-only options have better starts with the initial gold boost that would fade away.

Regardless of the options, they all really need to be posted BEFORE any nation selections are made. We had some issues with that before.

[atul]

Yeah, I'd really advice adhering to old programmers' paradigm, KISS (Keep It Simple).

The more strange variations you do, the more confusing it gets. The more things game manager loads for his team, the more prejudiced it appears. And so on. It has been shown that 2:1 ratio with standard settings has given results that depend on organization and co-operation of the teams, and that's what this kind of game should strive towards.

Vet team should have some advantage early on thanks to the huge outnumbering factor. First picks on nations is one of those, at least they can make sure they're not overtaken by early expanders so early in the game it hasn't even begun yet. If noobs get all extra resources and stuff you should give vets something too, like extra gem income. Not much use early on but nice to have at some point. Just an example. But easiest, most straightforward way would be just play it straight and not juggle any freebies around.

Oh, and one thing. If someone who places teams on the map plays for either team, the other team should have a say in where they are placed. Just for it to appear fair. We had some issues with that before, to quote a guy with good points in his post.

Yet I must disagree with lower magic site freq than usual. It just drops down the variety in the game, as some nations do depend on high magic while others go for steel.

But, if it's still intended as noobs vs vets, keep it simple. Mod nations and other nonstandard settings just make the game bizarre, not better.