[German] What do you do with your 50mms ? - Page 3

Imp · #21 May 13th, 2009, 08:58 PM

It balances it if a squad has rifles plus a LMG & can fire them all then it could fire its rifles & another weapon say a rifle SMG shotgun or whatever in the case of the squads you stated. If it has nothing it has effectivly lost a shot.

Charles22 · #22 May 14th, 2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross

Quote:

Originally Posted by runequester

The americans get the 60mm, the british get the 2", both of which have at least decent range.

But the german 50mm seems to lack any qualities at all. It has a tiny shell, and a 10 hex range, which makes it pointless as the delay in calling the fire mission means the fight will have moved too close anyways

I guess the germans figured this out as well, as they quickly ditched them historically.

So what do you guys do with them? Any redeeming features? Swap them for MG teams ?

SPWW2 has given these weapons their historical ranges.
The German 5cm and Brit 2 inch both had a range of about 500M, the US 60mm about 2000M, and the Jap 5cm 650M; and that's what they each have in the game.

As for 'qualities', the German 5cm (and the Jap 50mm) have been given an accuracy of '5', compared to '3' for the US and UK. This is a bit odd, because the Axis mortars had far shorter barrels than the Brit and US versions.

The German mortar did have lots of impressive - but probably unnecessary - dials for adjusting aim. Giving it a hefty weight of about 30lbs, compared to 10lbs for the Brit and Jap mortars.

The German 5cm also gets twice the ammo of the British. So I don't think the German are 'short changed' in the light mortar department.

None of the mortars (except the hybrid - half light, half med. US mortar) gets any penetration value. Making them even less effective than grenades, which is again a bit odd, as these mortars fired rounds weighing:

Brit: 2.25lb
Ger: 2lb
US: 3lb
Jap: 2lb

I wish these mortars got smoke rounds; which was one of the 2 inchers common functions. Does the US 60mm get smoke? But there may be a game/code reason why not.

I mostly use them in the direct fire role. They can be used with supressive 'Z' fire, but with only 12 rounds (UK) this seems like a waste of ammo.

cheers,
Cross

German 50mm's have more accuracy, but they have shorter range. What that "can" amount to, is that once a longer ranged, less accurate piece is brought down to actually being used at the shorter range, it may be just as accurate or better, because it's lesser accuracy is based on a higher number to begin with. I don't know if the number it is based on is the medium range for all weapons or not, but I doubt it's based on the longest range, which is probably considerably less accurate than the accuracy stated. For example, a tank gun with a range of 60, with an accuracy of 10, would be more accurate at range 20, than a gun with a top range of 20, but a stated accuracy of 12.

Cross · #23 May 14th, 2009, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22

German 50mm's have more accuracy, but they have shorter range.

What that "can" amount to, is that once a longer ranged, less accurate piece is brought down to actually being used at the shorter range, it may be just as accurate or better, because it's lesser accuracy is based on a higher number to begin with. I don't know if the number it is based on is the medium range for all weapons or not, but I doubt it's based on the longest range, which is probably considerably less accurate than the accuracy stated.
For example, a tank gun with a range of 60, with an accuracy of 10, would be more accurate at range 20, than a gun with a top range of 20, but a stated accuracy of 12.

The German 5cm has the same range as the British 2 inch, 500M.

Ger 5cm.....500m....Acc 5
Brit 2in.......500m....Acc 3
Jap 50mm...650m....Acc 5
US 60mm...2000m..Acc 3
Rus 50mm..800m....Acc 3

As you can see, the Axis mortars are more accurate.

If it's as you say - and the mortar accuracy is relevant to say half range - then at 250m the German mortar would have an acc of 5, the Brit mortar an acc of 3, and the Rus mortar an acc of about 2

cheers,
Cross

Imp · #24 May 14th, 2009, 05:17 PM

Probably about the only mortars where accuracy has any relevance as you do end up direct firing the shorter ranged ones.

Cross · #25 May 14th, 2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross

Ger 5cm.....500m....Acc 5
Brit 2in.......500m....Acc 3
Jap 50mm...650m....Acc 5
US 60mm...2000m..Acc 3
Rus 50mm..800m....Acc 3

As you can see, the Axis mortars are more accurate.

If it's as you say - and the mortar accuracy is relevant to say half range - then at 250m the German mortar would have an acc of 5, the Brit mortar an acc of 3, and the Rus mortar an acc of about 2

Oops, I meant:

and the Rus mortar an acc of about 4

.

runequester · #26 May 14th, 2009, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Probably about the only mortars where accuracy has any relevance as you do end up direct firing the shorter ranged ones.

and by then, its usually dire straits anyways

The 50mm crews tend to do more harm with their small arms than with the mortar, though it can scare off an armoured car and blow up the occasional truck

Charles22 · #27 May 14th, 2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles22

German 50mm's have more accuracy, but they have shorter range.

What that "can" amount to, is that once a longer ranged, less accurate piece is brought down to actually being used at the shorter range, it may be just as accurate or better, because it's lesser accuracy is based on a higher number to begin with. I don't know if the number it is based on is the medium range for all weapons or not, but I doubt it's based on the longest range, which is probably considerably less accurate than the accuracy stated.
For example, a tank gun with a range of 60, with an accuracy of 10, would be more accurate at range 20, than a gun with a top range of 20, but a stated accuracy of 12.

The German 5cm has the same range as the British 2 inch, 500M.

Ger 5cm.....500m....Acc 5
Brit 2in.......500m....Acc 3
Jap 50mm...650m....Acc 5
US 60mm...2000m..Acc 3
Rus 50mm..800m....Acc 3

As you can see, the Axis mortars are more accurate.

If it's as you say - and the mortar accuracy is relevant to say half range - then at 250m the German mortar would have an acc of 5, the Brit mortar an acc of 3, and the Rus mortar an acc of about 2

cheers,
Cross

Nah, I think you got your numbers mixed up. Half-range would change for whatever your full range is. Obviously, the USA one would have the greatest accuracy across the board, since the range is so vast. It's 4X the range of the german one, but with only 60% of the german 'stated' accuracy. So if accuracy were stated at maximum range, but used at the german maximum range (500m) then the US accuracy at that range would be 12 (3X4). If it would be at half-range, then USA would be 6 (3X2), while german would be like maybe 2.5 if it were half-range.

I'm only guessing of course, but you can see where accuracy without serious range, can be outshone by comparative lack of accuracy with great range. When considering that, the USA ones are by far the best in accuracy. The only way that the USA holds the seeming lack of accuracy, is if all accuracy were based on a solid range, such as 10 hexes or 20 hexes for each and every unit. I don't think it was done that way. Now who's going to shoot me down

?

chuckfourth · #28 May 27th, 2009, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRG

Now corrected in all applicable OOBs along with the overabundance or arms some units in some OOB's had. Some OOB's designers in the past just couldn't resist filling up the four slots

Don

I just came accross something that also may qualify. The 2 man USA unit 234 "Cavalry Scouts" has M1 Garand, BAR, M9 rifle grenade and grenades.
Best Regards Chuck.