Variety is the spice of life

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Wdll

Thank you for your answers.


I am sure all of us would want a higher unit limit for both player and AI units, but I have no idea if it is possible and if it is, how difficult it is. If my memory serves me right the limit can't be increased due to some hard coding.

The unit and formation limit can be increase quite easily but it totally screws up every existing scenario and save game and tends to bump into other game limits as well. I have a perfectly functional copy of an exe which allows 500 formations per side. This would allow *potentially* 2000 units per side


Andy and I thoroughly tested this late last fall and the bottom line is ( harsh as this is going to sound.....)we are not going to trash everything we have so a very small ( but vocal ) minority of players can fight what would amount to divisional level games and neither would any of the people who keep asking for this if they were the ones faced with the effort of rebuilding the game to accommodate what amounts to less than 1% of the players

As well, there is NO way we could allow a campaign to be played because there ARE hard coded limits to the number of casualties reported that one of these monsters would produce in no time. The save games are HUGE once there is a lot of combat recorded for playback and there are limits to that which has knock off affects to other areas.

Years ago we set up the limits on a firm belief that what we have now is more than enough to satisfy 99% of the players knowing full well it's impossible to satisfy 100%

However, that said I will show you want 1500 attacker units looks like zoomed all the way out and the defending force they would face in an advance/delay



Don

[Imp]

I think people wanting massive forces should also take a simple factor into acount map height is not going to change as previosly stated by the team so the biggest front you can play is 200 hexes.
Just how many Companies do you think would be involved in an action on a front this size. For many smaller nations the represented force could be bigger than there entire army.
Dont get me wrong I tend to err on the side of largish games purely because formations & hence OOBs are set up to make getting a realistic mix of forces easier if you buy larger forces. 3 rifle companies now instead of buying bits I can buy pre made formations like a support company, a recon group, sensible arty AAA etc. If this was a Mech force with a company or 2 of tanks in support it suddenly blossoms into 150 units

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

The unit and formation limit can be increase quite easily but it totally screws up every existing scenario and save game and tends to bump into other game limits as well. I have a perfectly functional copy of an exe which allows 500 formations per side. This would allow *potentially* 2000 units per side


Andy and I thoroughly tested this late last fall and the bottom line is ( harsh as this is going to sound.....)we are not going to trash everything we have so a very small ( but vocal ) minority of players can fight what would amount to divisional level games and neither would any of the people who keep asking for this if they were the ones faced with the effort of rebuilding the game to accommodate what amounts to less than 1% of the players

As well, there is NO way we could allow a campaign to be played because there ARE hard coded limits to the number of casualties reported that one of these monsters would produce in no time. The save games are HUGE once there is a lot of combat recorded for playback and there are limits to that which has knock off affects to other areas.

Years ago we set up the limits on a firm belief that what we have now is more than enough to satisfy 99% of the players knowing full well it's impossible to satisfy 100%

However, that said I will show you want 1500 attacker units looks like zoomed all the way out and the defending force they would face in an advance/delay



Don

I have to admit I didn't consider the map size in this. Obviously any increase to the amount of units, similar to the above, would require an increase of the map or else it would have many other problems (gameplay ones).
It would be super cool if it was (easily) changed to have both increase of units and map sizes and not break everything else apart. From your sayings though, the task is just not worth the trouble for you and I completely understand that. As you said very few people would actualy play with such settings.

Tell you what, if you ever decide to make a sequel/remake, consider increasing the limits from the get go.

For now, I wouldn't mind seeing an extra difficulty setting (as you mentioned) to further reduce the amount of reinforcements in campaigns, in some future patch

Thanks for answering this.

[Imp]

For now, I wouldn't mind seeing an extra difficulty setting (as you mentioned) to further reduce the amount of reinforcements in campaigns

I pressume you mean R&R points here.

Setting AI prefs to 130-150% for a harder game is a good idea I have changed it to that for ages now.
People who want huge games I am guessing are just messing with the game not playing proper massive battles. Limited tactics there armour takes up position & just plinks at hordes of probably inferrior tanks. Then they go & mop up & thats fine if its there thing but the whole reason for this post was to try & make people realise it can be a good massivly versatile game if you approach it correctly. If you want to approach it as a plink plink game that to seems possible but you are missing out on huge chunks of work put into the game. I for one know which camp I am in hence I appreciate the work put into constantly improving the game.

Sadly the way people approach this game seems hardwired as the main thing this has degenerated into a discussion on making harder by increasing buy points. Making it harder more varied & fun by varying your force seems only to get input from people that play that way anyway so mission failed.
Shame realy it does not occur to anyone that if say early WW2 the Russians come at you mainly with BTs & T-26s with the odd nice tank thrown in that perhaps thats the sort of force you should be using not a fleet of KVs & T-34.
Must be something wrong with the way my brain processes logic it seems diffrent to most peoples

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by Imp

I pressume you mean R&R points here.

Setting AI prefs to 130-150% for a harder game is a good idea I have changed it to that for ages now.
People who want huge games I am guessing are just messing with the game not playing proper massive battles. Limited tactics there armour takes up position & just plinks at hordes of probably inferrior tanks. Then they go & mop up & thats fine if its there thing but the whole reason for this post was to try & make people realise it can be a good massivly versatile game if you approach it correctly. If you want to approach it as a plink plink game that to seems possible but you are missing out on huge chunks of work put into the game. I for one know which camp I am in hence I appreciate the work put into constantly improving the game

Imp, it is unfair to call people who want the scale talked about as just people who are either not interested in the game or real tactics just because you disagree with their taste. People wanting more doesn't mean they don't appreciate what they have got.

That was a low blow from you.

[Imp]

Imp, it is unfair to call people who want the scale talked about as just people who are either not interested in the game or real tactics just because you disagree with their taste. People wanting more doesn't mean they don't appreciate what they have got.

That was a low blow from you

Quite possibly & I am generalising like I say my battles will often be in the 200+ area but just going on posts where people set to very high levels & feel this is what they do. I have done a 500 unit PBEM & if its a proper tactical battle takes a long time to do a game & remember whats going on, now where did that arty fall etc. I am not in the small battle camp as you can see do them for a change & raids.
There maybe someone out there that wants massive battles with realistic forces & if so my hats off to them but I dont think thats the general case & if it is as I said fine. If they want to go plink plink thats fine to as I think said in first post in this thread its your game.
Its also been stated many times map & max units are not going to change.
I did say in earlier post one of the great things about this game is its so versatile & trying to put misconceptions to rest like setting AI to 400% does not mean thats what you are fighting esp part way through a campaign.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Wdll

It would be super cool if it was (easily) changed to have both increase of units and map sizes and not break everything else apart. .

NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN

Originally Posted by Wdll

Tell you what, if you ever decide to make a sequel/remake, consider increasing the limits from the get go.
.

What did I write earlier ?

Years ago we set up the limits on a firm belief that what we have now is more than enough to satisfy 99% of the players knowing full well it's impossible to satisfy 100%

Please tell me what part of that is unclear ? We DID "consider increasing the limits" and increased them considerably and considered the increases we made to be reasonable for the vast majority of players

Do you happen to recal the limits built into SP2 ???

I'll refresh everyones memory

3 map sizes with 100x80 hexes max

52 formations per player
200 units per player

125 core units

3 terrain heights

Don

[Wdll]

It would be better if I said nothing more.

EDIT: the above was directed to Imp.

[DRG]

probably.......

[Wdll]

Originally Posted by DRG

NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN

What did I write earlier ?

Please tell me what part of that is unclear ? We DID "consider increasing the limits" and increased them considerably and considered the increases we made to be reasonable for the vast majority of players

Do you happen to recal the limits built into SP2 ???

I'll refresh everyones memory

3 map sizes with 100x80 hexes max

52 formations per player
200 units per player

125 core units

3 terrain heights

Don

So you are telling me if you had in a good mood and Shrapnel says here is X money go and make a sequel/remake, you will just say, "NONE OF THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN"? Fine.
I get that you are not going to do this for this game, that's why I said IF you EVER make a future game then if you could CONSIDER. Also, saying that I would like something if it was possible although I realise it is not possible to happen it does not mean I DON'T GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

I get your point, you will not do this for the reasons you mentioned earlier, that doesn't mean that I and perhaps others can't dream.