Communions

[Jarkko]

True Gregstorm Too bad I can't edit the post anymore though, so my astonishing math skills will be visible for all the future generations too

[OmikronWarrior]

Keep in Mind, you can only use one additional Gem beyond the casting cost. This raises the mage's path level by one for that particular spell (which as a side effect can reduce fatigue). I could not tell you the relationship with communions.

[Gregstrom]

I often feel that the edit limit is a complete pain in the arse.

Still, it all goes to prove that communions genuinely are confusing.

Edit: Cool - the filters can't cope with British english (yet...).

[Endoperez]

Originally Posted by OmikronWarrior

Keep in Mind, you can only use one additional Gem beyond the casting cost. This raises the mage's path level by one for that particular spell (which as a side effect can reduce fatigue). I could not tell you the relationship with communions.

More than one, according to manual. The first one raises level (which as a side effect reduces fatigue), the others just reduce fatigue. This is how the AI likes to burn all those gems you wish it wouldn't.

[Benjamin]

I always thought that the one gem spent by master to raise his level did nothing fatigue wise because it didn't raise the level of the slaves and that's where fatigue is calculated. Am I wrong?

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Endoperez

More than one, according to manual. The first one raises level (which as a side effect reduces fatigue), the others just reduce fatigue. This is how the AI likes to burn all those gems you wish it wouldn't.

As I was saying, there was a big discussion about it awhile back, and it seemed to be a known bug that though it was intended for more gems to be viable (and so, you CAN eat more than 1 extra), any gems beyond the first extra, do nothing at all.

Okay, page 1 of This Thread has some good info, but I linked page 2 because KO pretty clearly states that you can only use 1 gem as a "booster".

Also, The Almighty Llama seems to share this same belief.

[vfb]

You can only use 1 gem to boost your path and cast a spell you would otherwise not have access to. You can use multiple gems for fatigue reduction, and it does work.

My test: D6 PoD casting CBM Bone Grinding (D7,fatigue x 2, 30D gems, neutral magic scales.

1st cast: uses 1 gem. Fatigue at 99.

castspell: cnr143 spl396 (Bone Grinding) vis1 x6 y16 spldmg3^M
vis 1 xvis 1^M

2nd cast: uses 6 gems. Fatigue at 115

castspell: cnr143 spl396 (Bone Grinding) vis6 x6 y16 spldmg3^M
vis 6 xvis 6^M

I'm not sure why fatigue is 115 after the second cast, and not 119 (99+99/5) or 114 (99+99/5-5).


Also: it's annoying how when casting spells in combat, the casting algorithm does not like to use gems to reduce fatigue, until you actually have fatigue. It would be much more efficient to just cast with 2 gems both times, or better yet 3 gems, instead of 1 gem for the 1st cast, then 6 gems for the second.

[Illuminated One]

Originally Posted by Gregstrom

1. According to the research in Baalz' thread about communions, the Master ONLY gets fatigue equal to his spellcasting encumbrance - normally under 10 points, and certainly not 89.

I'm pretty sure the master gets fatigue from the spell.
The correct formula for the masters fatigue seems to be:
Adjusted Spell fatigue = Spell fatigue / (1 + Skill in Path after communion - Skill required)
(Adjusted Spell fatigue + Encumberance) / Number of Slaves


Tests:

4 Witch Hunters casting (Communion Slave)(hold)...
and 1 Marignon Grand Master F3E1S1 with 10 enc casting

1st:
(Communion Master) -> Master at 20 fatigue
(Flaming Arrows with 1 Gem) -> Master at 35 fatigue
(Invulnerability) -> Master at 42 Fatigue

2nd:
(Communion Master) -> Master at 20 fatigue
(Will of the Fates with 4 Gems) -> Master at 122 fatigue


So calculating Master Fatigue for the Tests would go like this:

Flaming Arrows:
Master starts with F3. In the communion he has F5 due to 4 slaves.
Spell requires F4 with 100 fatigue.
=> Adjusted Spell fatigue = 100 / (1 + 5 - 4) = 50
Master Fatigue = (50 + 10) / 4 = 15

Invulnerability:
Master starts with E1. In the communion he has E3.
Spell requires E3 with 20 fatigue.
=> Adjusted Spell fatigue = 20 / (1 + 3 - 3) = 20
Master Fatigue = (20 + 10) / 4 = 7.5

Will of the Fates:
Master starts with S2. In the communion he has S4.
Spell requires S4 with 400 fatigue.
=> Adjusted Spell fatigue = 400
Master Fatigue = (400 + 10) / 4 = 102.5

[GrudgeBringer]

When using gems do you give each individual slave and Master a small (or large) cache of gems?

And are they automatically used as needed or is thier a way you have to script them to be used (man, this sounds so complicated and BTW....it took me 4 times to get thru basic college Algebra.

(factoring was my downfall)

So for us uhhhhh, mathmatic challenged individuals who will nod and act like we know what your resuts show...could you pleeeease do a summery in normal language so we can go ...AHA!!!, with the rest of you .

Thanks guys for all the help though

[PsiSoldier]

Ive run into a communion problem that I did not expect and I cannot explain.

I have a communion of 8 Bane's with Slave Matrix's and an Alchemist with a Crystal Matrix. However the communion does not work. The Alchemist does not recieve any boost from the slaves as he was apparently unable to cast the spells I had scripted AND the slaves do not receive any of the buffs that the Alchemist casts on himself such as Fire Resistance etc...

I was under the impression that Slave Matrix would work for anyone. Is this not the case? Does it not work on undead or does it simply not work on commanders with no magic path? I'm guessing from what I see here that slave matrix's simply do not work on commanders with no magic path although I'd swear I have read something that said otherwise.

Can anyone explain this or tell me how to make it work appropriately?