Fighters! What are they good for? - Page 3

CW · #21 September 29th, 2001, 07:18 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Deathstalker:
anyone tried the trick with the Heavy Carrier and the shipyard anymore?? (I think it was with a hvy carrier, ship space yard and fighters with kamikaze warheads....use them like 'missiles', use the carrier to build more after each battle)....Tried it a few patches ago, worked ok...Never tried it in strategic combat though...

Can your space yard sustain the losses? I really doubt it...

On to the topic of missiles, I just discovered why everyone likes seeking parasites. I figured out that I could design a mean-and-nasty DN that a homeworld can build in TWO (!!) turns at the normal rate of 4800!

raynor · #22 October 1st, 2001, 06:47 AM

When I played more, I would group my fighters in Groups of 80 and put them in the fleet with my other ships before I attacked. I found that small fighters with the most primitive weapon seemed to survive better that way against the PDC than when I launched them from a carrier.

I think the best thing about fighters is that they don't affect your score. So, you can build a huge maintenance-free armada of fighters at every colony and not have to worry about becoming Mega Evil Empire before you are ready to start annihilating everyone in sight.

DirectorTsaarx · #23 October 2nd, 2001, 11:10 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Deathstalker:
I think that point defense is TOO powerful, I believe that missile rof should be 2, (maybe 1 for crystal torp, too low damage), and pdc should have a rate of fire of 2....but heck that is just me...

Actually, I think it would work just as well to increase the amount of damage required to destroy seekers. As it is now, a single hit from a PDC will destroy a seeker of same (or lower) level. If missiles are harder to destroy, PDC's would become more balanced.

quote:
Originally posted by CW:
On to the topic of missiles, I just discovered why everyone likes seeking parasites. I figured out that I could design a mean-and-nasty DN that a homeworld can build in TWO (!!) turns at the normal rate of 4800!

You'll also find that seeking parasites fire every TWO rounds, vs. THREE rounds for other seekers. And the parasites are faster too. Don't recall how much damage they can take, nor how much they do, but I REALLY dislike fighting against organic races because of the seeking parasites.

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L++ GdY $ Fr>Fr++ C++ SdS T-- Sf Tcp? A%% M- Mp! RTH!P Pw Fq-->Fq+ Nd>Nd+++++ Rp++ G+

Sinapus · #24 October 2nd, 2001, 11:57 PM

quote:
Actually, I think it would work just as well to increase the amount of damage required to destroy seekers. As it is now, a single hit from a PDC will destroy a seeker of same (or lower) level. If missiles are harder to destroy, PDC's would become more balanced.

Yes, that's what I've been doing. As for seeking parasites and crystal torpedos... ever notice that they only go up to lvl 5? Don't those of you who love seekers find that somewhat tragic?

So I'm playtesting the VI thru X Versions of those weapons so Organic and Crystal Weapons get better seekers at higher levels. Also, I added three more capital ship missile levels (VI through VIII) and an extra plasma missile (VI) due to a typo in the original research files for various missile-armed races. It goes to lvl 8, so I changed techareas for missiles to max lvl 8 and added them in.

Currently, Crystal Torp X has the highest seeker damage rating. Also, I lowered the tonnage for both parasites and crystal torps to 40 kt and lowered plasma missiles to 30. (Since plasma missiles aren't very useful even when I did increase the damage to plasma VI a bit more. Might as well toss a whole bunch at the enemy.)

Mind you, I don't use plasma missiles, nor do I use organic or crystal weapons.

Puke · #25 October 3rd, 2001, 12:13 AM

everyone seems to think that PD is too strong, and missiles too weak. even the DevNull mod made missiles more powerfull.

right now, you can stop a barrage of missiles if you have at least as much point defense. point defense is smaller than a missile, so with equal size ships a point-defense / direct fire ship could in theory hold back everything a dedicated missile ship can throw, and then return fire.

this means that to make a sucessful strategy, you have to do one of two things. one, swarm with fighters and missiles, using superior numbers and larger fleets. two build ballanced fleets so that your enemy must waste space on point defense, but you take advantage of direct fire weapons and combined arms.

either of those make for good gameplay. reballancing the game so that an equal sized missile only ship can take out an equal sized point defense ship does not, in my opinion, make for good gameplay.

Suicide Junkie · #26 October 3rd, 2001, 12:18 AM

If you've reduced the size of a weapon that already does more than any other AND fires faster, you've lifely got a major balance problem.

Compare the Damage/Kt/turn reload, and see if they are still reasonable (between 0.75 and 1.5)

PS: Could you post the stats for these missiles?

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 02 October 2001).]

Intruder13 · #27 October 3rd, 2001, 12:41 AM

Could ECM or shields be added to CSMs?

Phoenix-D · #28 October 3rd, 2001, 01:11 AM

"Could ECM or shields be added to CSMs"

No. EDIT: Clarification: there is no way to do that without a hard code change. The only attributes you get for the missles are speed, damage, and damage resistance.

Personally, I went the Decoy/devnull (haven't played devnull, but I heard it does this) and put in decoys (1 damage missile with really jacked up damage resistance) Also a AutoMissile launcher, which fires once per turn, but at the cost of larger size and lower damage.

You really have to be careful with the decoys though. The missiles move in order of launch, which is the order you put them on the ship. PD engages the first missiles. So if you put the decoys on Last, they're pretty useless.

I also added fighter missiles and fighter decoys, and more PD. *Big* pain to balance this stuff..

Phoenix-D

[This message has been edited by Phoenix-D (edited 03 October 2001).]

CW · #29 October 3rd, 2001, 03:46 AM

quote:
Originally posted by DirectorTsaarx:
You'll also find that seeking parasites fire every TWO rounds, vs. THREE rounds for other seekers. And the parasites are faster too. Don't recall how much damage they can take, nor how much they do, but I REALLY dislike fighting against organic races because of the seeking parasites.

It also means that I could build my DNs (with 11 parasites each) faster than others could build their PD ships!

On the other hand I don't think it is faster than a Plasma missile, a parasite does a lot less damage too.

[This message has been edited by CW (edited 03 October 2001).]

dogscoff · #30 October 3rd, 2001, 10:56 AM

Actually Devnullmod maks mor than a few changes to missiles and PD:

First, he added extrnal mount Versions of all missiles - less space but only one shot per combat.

Second, he added sprint missiles.

I haven't seen any decoys yet.

Third, he split PD into 3 distinct Groups.

Fightr point defence: Long range, 20 kt, can hit fightrs and seekers.

Regular point defnce: Medium size, medium range, and the first tech level is available at the start of the game. Cannot target fightrs.

Mini point defence, which takes up 5 kt and has a range of one or two. These are good for defending yourslf but no good for defending your fleet. Again, can't target fighters.

It's a good systm, and well balancd IMHO. I'v played it pretty extensively and I find that there is no clear winnr between seekers, fighters and PD.

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