Thug Commanders

[JimMorrison]

Originally Posted by Ironhawk

Yeah IMO, units never switch thug/SC status just based on what time in the game it is. It really is a rather static assesment of the powerful of a single unit. A thug will always be a thug.

Of course there is no SC school that thugs can graduate from. However, for example the phrase "awake SC pretender", refers to a Cyclops with a Blacksteel Tower, or some such thing. At a certain point in the game, he becomes just a poorly dressed thug, unless you upgrade his gear to enable him to fulfill SC status within the scope of the game.

To put it another way, all of your top end summons are merely thugs of varying caliber, until you send them to the tailor to get their SC suit.

[Tifone]

Doesn't the Cyclops just attack with the fist? Isn't far better to have him dormant and wait for a AoE brand or even something less good? I can't imagine him going around punching to death indeps without getting swarmed with his big size.

[JimMorrison]

I haven't personally been able to figure out how an awake Cyclops is supposed to work. My best builds were asleep, with a rush to Cons4.....

However, I've seen some players who are much more married to awake pretenders describe such things. Remember, the Cyclops does have a Fear aura, so he doesn't have to punch all of them.

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Skirmisher

Since I got Dominions 3 back in late June I've been playing Arcoscephale EA exclusively. I guess the Arco's aren't really a good thug nation.

Supposedly the Oreiads make good thugs. I haven't really really played enough with EA Arco to give advice, but with a little gear the Awe should protect them from enough attacks to survive.

[Hoplosternum]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Supposedly the Oreiads make good thugs. I haven't really really played enough with EA Arco to give advice, but with a little gear the Awe should protect them from enough attacks to survive.

I have heard that as well. Baalz, or someone else, did a couple of example equipment lists for them which looked quite impressive.

But the Arcos in general are very 'Thug poor' nations. In general they have no access to Death or Blood (LA Sybils have a chance at a little death but thats it) and no national summons that can be made in to Thugs. Nor recruitable commanders that are natural thugs - unless you consider the (EA) Oreiad as such.

Until you get to the Elemental Royalty and the other high end summons (Golems etc) there is only Troll Kings - which are expensive - and the rather moderate Sleeper chassis to turn to if you want a Thug.

Many of the original races are like this. There are lots of nice things about them but they have key weaknesses which need to be either be overcome with your Pretender design or your strategy. Some of the later designs seem to be strong everywhere

If you want to try out Thug strategies then Arco is a poor choice. It isn't that Oreiads can't be made in to Thugs but they have so many other uses and make rather unusual ones anyway. If you are interested in trying out Thugs then there are much more suitable nations to practice with.

Any of the Giant Races provides you with recruitable Giant Commanders who have useful magic paths and / or self blessable Giant commanders (plenty of HPs & strength) which are well worth adding equipment to. Pythium, Marignon, most Monkey nations and the dedicated blood nations have many national summons which can be made in to very useful Thugs. Or simply choose a race with easy access to Blood or Death (which have recruitable Thugs as summons).

By the end game everyone should have access to SCs, but Thugs often come earlier and it matters which race you play.

[HoneyBadger]

Awake Cyclops + Black Steel Tower Shield + Piercer + Earth 8 + Dom 8 = pretty invulnerable to light militia and the like. They have natural Fear 0, which, when combined with Awe 0, makes for a fairly deadly unit, vs the weaker independents-especially if they're leading your starting army.

[Rytek]

Dominion 9 gets you Awe 0. Dominion 8 gives nothing.

[HoneyBadger]

Dom 9 then. I thought Dom 9 gave Awe 1 though, but I could be wrong.

[Rytek]

Yup.
Dominion 9 gives Awe 0
Dominion 10 gives Awe 2

And just for fun, A dominion 10 virtue has Awe 7

[HoneyBadger]

That's a lot of Awe!