Manifestation is overpowerd.

[Zeldor]

I'd rather ban Argitoth from here


But to be on topic - I would be happy with removing all assassinations from the game. It is really just annoyance with current game mechanics. That is random and really luck dependant. And it brings a huge load of frustration sometimes , when a commander with retreat order gets attacked that way or some communion master with strange script. And manifestation is one really ugly assasination spell. I have been attacked by it several times.

[Argitoth]

Zeldor said:
I'd rather ban Argitoth from here

Won't have to, I'm leaving soon, as I've already mentioned.

[Edi]

Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.

[Amhazair]

For me, the most frequent use of assessination spells is to assessinate the one or two commanders of a small raiding party. That way you can stop the nuissance in its tracks with only a small investment. Manifestation is very risky in this situation (as in: not worth the risk) due to the chance of attacking the caster if it doesn't find a suitable target. Hence, Manifestation is probably the assessination spell I use the least.

This doesn't mean that the spell is useless, far from it. It certainly has its place in those moments you want to target the opposing army with a barrage of assessinations in anticipation of a decisive clash. It might very well be that you're right and that it's the most difficult assessination spell to defend against, but I feel that this is more than balanced with the fact you can only safely use it against rather large concentrations of commanders. In conclusion I'd say this spell is siutationally strong, and as such nicely balanced.

[Argitoth]

Edi said:
Argitoth, you have no place at all whining about other people not doing tests. You seem to be the only one who feels that it is overpowered and you claim to have tested this. So let us see the test results, because the burden of proof is on you to back up your claim.

Why would proof all of a sudden change your mind that Manifestation is overpowered or not? Bottom line is that it's virtually impossible to gaurantee protection against Manifestation. Those are my test results. Now it's your job to either say why it is not overpowered OR agree with me. Let me list a few tests I did from the top of my head

-Casting living fire once
-Bottle of water
-Just man's cross, eye of aiming, set to cast Swarm and Fire
-Two Catoblepes as guards
-A tartarian as a guard
-5 wyverns as guards
-5 C'tis chariots as guards
-5 wights as guards + set to cast Dust to Dust (will kill the wights if you're unlucky)
-5 wights as guards + Just Man's Cross (not as bad with wight guards)

Everything in this list works ***SOMETIMES*** It depends on if your guards/summons are lucky and if the manifestation doesn't bypass all guards/summons

[Sombre]

Seems like it has great balance to me. It can be countered with commander chaff, it's risky against small numbers of enemy commanders so you can't use it so much to root out raiding thugs etc, it has a high casting requirement considering it's a spell that needs to be spammed to be really painful,.. and so on. Yet it is very powerful in the right situation.

[Argitoth]

You know what, let me do one more test. If manifestation can be killed 9/10 times with a ring of warning + double the guards, I definitely won't think Manifestation is overpowered... gonna do the test now.

-8 Wyverns are guards: Manifestation bypasses guards 1st time
-8 Scropion beasts: Couldn't hit the Manifestation. Retreated due to fear 1st time.
-10 Wights: Manifestation bypassed guards 3rd time.

[capnq]

Argitoth said:it's virtually impossible to gaurantee...

IMO, this attitude right here is the source of much of your frustration with the game.

This isn't chess. NOTHING should be guaranteed. Every tactic has a counter, every counter has a counter, and none of them should work 100% of the time.

[Argitoth]

Bottle of water = immunity to earth attacks. There are things that do work 100% of the time.


Just did the test: worked 18 times in a row. Commander retreated due to water elemental getting hit too hard. The water elemental definitely would have won the battle.

[mathusalem]

so because there isn't a way to immune, it's overpowered ?