The most important Dominions skill

[Jazzepi]

I really think people are overrating diplomacy. Roosevelt said "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far." Bluffing only works so far, and eventually you have to be able to bolster your position with actual force. If you're the worst dominions 3 player in the world, but you're excellent at diplomacy, nothing is going to save you when push finally comes to shove.

Diplomacy is a force multiplier. It allows you win engagements with larger nations by putting you into an advantageous position, but it doesn't actually make you any stronger. If you don't have anything to multiply with it, you're mostly wasting your time.

Jazzepi

[RonD]

My most successful diplomatic maneuvers have only a little bit to do with alliances. Or with winning battles/wars - they have more to do with staying out of wars and with manipulating who is fighting who else while I stay out of it. Success mostly lies with the ability to convince another player that what is in *my* best interest is actually in *his* best interest.

Sometimes that is even true, which makes it easier.

[Edi]

RonD said:
My most successful diplomatic maneuvers have only a little bit to do with alliances. Or with winning battles/wars - they have more to do with staying out of wars and with manipulating who is fighting who else while I stay out of it. Success mostly lies with the ability to convince another player that what is in *my* best interest is actually in *his* best interest.

Sometimes that is even true, which makes it easier.

Quite. One more thing about diplomacy: It is a good idea to cultivate good relations with people you don't war with, because if they go down, they are more likely to be charitable towards you just to strike back from the dead. That's not a trivial thing at all, especially if the one going down decides to make enough of a fight of it to give you a chance to build up and come ahead stronger while your future opponent is spending his strength in trying to finish your friend off.

Happened to me in LeafNosedBat, where my ostensible greatest ally rarely bothered to cultivate any relations (such as trading favors or information) with me while his largest enemy did because we had no border in common, and when a third player eventually as good as wiped me out, things weren't quite as clear as they could have been. Going out with a bang is fun!

[Ironhawk]

Diplomacy is by no means overrated - not even slightly. But I think people are confusing the issue. Certainly it is not neccesary to have good diplo just do decently or perhaps even prosper in a game. However, the OP asks us what is most critical to win a game, not just get by. And without question, it is Diplomacy that seperates the winners from the losers.

[Zenzei]

Diplomacy is important, no doubt about it. However, there are games that allow no diplo, the RAND game is the most recent one I believe, and they have winners too.

In the case of RAND the players who did the best showing were the ones hanging in the top spots of hall of fame and to me(at least) it says it's the player skill in other areas of Dominions, rather than skill in diplomacy, that separates winners from losers.

[DonCorazon]

I think this is an example of where the problem is the question. To win an MP game you really need to have mastered several elements, not just one. I have survived to the endgame in almost every MP game with diplomacy but could not pull off a win because my endgame knowledge was totally inadequate.

I witnessed Ironhawk�s mastery of diplomacy in Epotara. His coalition of the willing led to him pulling off a challenging VP victory. Nevertheless, it was also his ability to put together a force that could win the final epic clash in Utgard that cinched his victory.

In contrast, I managed to stay in the race in Epotara with diplomacy and opportunistic conquests, but my first real endgame battle was a disaster and revealed how ill prepared I was to really pull off a victory. In my case, I think it wasn�t diplomacy I needed but a better understanding of what endgame battles look like.

So my two cents are you need diplomacy to get to the endgame, and you need to understand how to fight MP endgame battles to ultimately pull off a win. Because no matter how silver-tongued you are, eventually you have to fight. The challenge for noobs is that it can take several months to get to the point where you are fighting MP endgame battles. And you really need to see how those are fought to know how to develop your nation and strategy. So unless you have time for the fast learning blitz experience (which I usually don�t), you are in for a long harsh learning experience when the armies and nations you so lovingly crafted as a noob in a long MP game get obliterated by a horde of Army of Leaded Vine Ogres backed with Mistformed Tartarians etc.

[Ironhawk]

The old chicken and the egg

[DonCorazon]

I want a rematch!!!

[sansanjuan]

DonCorazon said:
in a long MP game get obliterated by a horde of Army of Leaded Vine Ogres backed with Mistformed Tartarians etc.

It will be interesting to see what the tart nerf in the next patch does to end games. What will be the (single) substitute or will there be dozens of end games scenarios.

-SSJ

[Zeldor]

Luck