vengeance of the dead, how it works with 1000+ ?

[Cor2]

vfb said:
IMO Vengeance of the Dead is buggy too, for including undead kills in its dead count. It's the souls of the dead you slew coming back to haunt you. So when you double up, where the heck did those extra undead come from?

When you wack a soul of a previous victim they split into two equal souls. I thought this was obvious! We all know that there is no law of conservation of souls!

[triqui]

NTJedi said:
3) Killing these undead within a dream should not count as kills. This results in one soul being doubled or tripled and appearing in future VotD castings.

Actually, killing the avenging soul should be SUBSTRACTED from the future VotD castings. I killed you. Your soul came back seeking revenge. I killed your soul. You are definitely dead, period. You dont have "extra souls" to spare to keep avenging you forever.

[Omnirizon]

maybe these are just "dream" souls. So each soul killed is implanted in the killers mind for each time it was killed. During the VotD dream, each one of these killed soul implantations is attacking the dreamer, not the soul itself.

Its a mind thing man!

[Zeldor]

The sad thing is that works only on living killers, you do not have a spell that could do similar harm to undead and demons, so it favors many nations.

[kasnavada]

Another idea I wrote in the other thread would be a "ritual of forgiveness" which gives your unit 0 experience and 0 kills again.

[Evil Dave]

Omnirizon said:
maybe these are just "dream" souls. So each soul killed is implanted in the killers mind for each time it was killed. During the VotD dream, each one of these killed soul implantations is attacking the dreamer, not the soul itself.

Yup. I came across a description of a real-world thing much like VotD, and I think the Devs used it as the basis for the spell. After battle, some New Guinea tribesmen have nightmares where they are cut off from their friends and are battling all the people they've killed recently. It's apparently related to what we call "post-traumatic stress disorder". Lawrence Keeley mentions it in War before Civilization.

[Foodstamp]

I have a great fix for this problem. Let's don't fix it! Do we really want to limit how we can kill Supercombatants? Do you really want to create an endgame where as soon as a Supercombatant is equipped, the player can breathe a sigh of relief because he has won the game, the rest of the turns just being an exercise of moving around the map flipping flags?

[triqui]

Zeldor said:
The sad thing is that works only on living killers, you do not have a spell that could do similar harm to undead and demons, so it favors many nations.

Demons are affected by the spell. My Moloch is. However, demons and devils have several other weakness as well (like banishment). Normally i consider the trait "undead" or "devil" as a negative one. That's why undeads and demons tend to have better stats for the same cost than other characters.

[triqui]

Foodstamp said:
I have a great fix for this problem. Let's don't fix it! Do we really want to limit how we can kill Supercombatants? Do you really want to create an endgame where as soon as a Supercombatant is equipped, the player can breathe a sigh of relief because he has won the game, the rest of the turns just being an exercise of moving around the map flipping flags?

This is not an "endgame" spell. It is thaumathurgy 4. It can be cast easily on turn 15 against any awake pretender (it has been on my game). Do you suggest that only valid strategy should be imprisoned pretenders for scales or dual bless?
In endgame there are much better options than VotD anyways. Mind hunt KILLS you if you fail the MR, instead of making you to fight against ethereal zombies.

[kasnavada]

There are a lot of other ways to take care of supercombattant in a battle, and a lot of threads speak of it... what you basically said here is that if I choose the wyrm as pretender and give him a few anti-magic items, I already won the game. Pardon my bluntness, but it's stupid.

The proposed fixes would also have other repercussions that you can take advantage of.
Example : 20 artillery mages with 50 kills each are forever protected as long as an SC is there. If every ghosts comes back only once, that means that the next casting of the spell will kill one of those artillery mages, which have lower MR and, for most of them, have simply no chance to beat up that many ghosts without a meat shield.

Besides, relying on that spell only to kill SC means something else. That whoever has that spell and the mages to cast it has won the game against an opponent that uses SC. That's about as balanced as the imaginary "invincible" first SC you speak of.