Tip: Looking for advice on site searching

[vfb]

Well, you'd miss out on the Summoning Circle (60% off blood rituals) and the Ultimate Gateway (50% off conjuration rituals) and a few nice indy mages like Shadow Seers.

Then again, I've usually got about zero gems in my reserves, so I might be going a bit overboard on the site searching.

[Psycho]

Great job Edi. And thanks others who posted as well.

[Saxon]

Related to the issue of strategy, how do you search when you take over another player�s land in MP? If you have very different paths, it is easy, you search. However, if you share a path, you have to decide if you should search or not. Do you assume the other player searched religiously with radar spells? Do you assume he will have missed some provinces or only used a low level mage? The absence of a site closer to the capital, to me, suggests it is more likely they searched, but can I be sure?

One does need to consider how many gem sites they had before you took their province, as that will give some indication on how seriously they were searching. Also, if it was a rush victory, the land was unlikely to have been checked, while a victory later in the game would suggest otherwise.

Spending on searches is a form of investment. You want to get a decent return and the first part of the thread helps one calculate that. However, the MP dynamic complicates things. Do you spend the gems/mage time for low returns? I guess part of it will depend on your need for gems, the time you think you will have to recoup the cost and what resources you have free to invest. However, any ideas on how to maximize the return are welcome!

BTW, great point on searches with holy units, thanks for that.

[Edi]

To answer an earlier question, the limit of four sites per province has always been there, ever since the days of Dominions PPP. It may not have been stated anywhere in the manual, but it's one of the things that has so far been set in stone, in triplicate.

For the sake of completeness, site determination mechanics, courtesy of KO from the days of Dominions 2:

MAGIC SITE FREQUENCY
Kristoffer O posted 03 April, 2004 10:46

Not sure of the exact numbers.
(I'm not sure of the specifics. Waste might be 30, swamp and mountain 20. 'just a guess.)
I guess it works like this:

Magic: (site freq) + 30
Waste: (site freq) + 20
Swamp: (site freq) + 20
Mountain: (site freq) + 10
Forest: (site freq) + 10
Farm: (site freq) - 20

Only the most beneficial counts.

If site: Check what site. Random.
If site not possible: Reroll.
If site unique and already in the game: Reroll.
If site possible and rare: Reroll once.

Many nature sites are common but restricted to forests etc.

Unique sites are also rare or common. Inkpot end is unique and common. Crown of Darkness is rare.

No blood under water IIRC. Indeed, there are no underwater blood sites ~Edi

[Endoperez]

Once again, great compilation! I wonder when owning actual Dominions isn't necessary because Edi's "Dom Database 40 000" includes a turn-by-turn walkthrough of just how you lost.

[vfb]

It's a bit inconvenient that Bowl of Blood automatic searching targets water provinces, when there aren't any blood sites in water. It would be nice if it skipped water provinces.

[Saxon]

Here is another question. If you find 70% of sites with a level two search, has anyone done the math on how many sites you find with a level one search?

I have in mind those indy mages you get that have one level in path that you don�t have otherwise. With level one they are of limited value, but if they would catch a fair portion of sites, perhaps they are more useful that I thought.

[Endoperez]

Saxon said:
Here is another question. If you find 70% of sites with a level two search, has anyone done the math on how many sites you find with a level one search?

I have in mind those indy mages you get that have one level in path that you don’t have otherwise. With level one they are of limited value, but if they would catch a fair portion of sites, perhaps they are more useful that I thought.

Death, Astral and Blood 1 mages can casting site-searching spells straight off or after some hunting/empowering. Any way, Edi posted a list of sites where the relative commonness of sites of different levels was shown. Comparing those:

path: level 1 sites/level 2 sites
Fire 29/17
Air 31/14
Water 45/25
Earth 36/29
Astral 24/16
Death 33/20
Nature 37/24
Blood 20/12

Most paths have only 1 common level 2 site, but many common level 1 sites. I'd say level 1 searching finds about 2/3rds of the sites level 2 searcher would find.
Unique sites screw up the numbers somewhat. Earth has 10 unique level 2 sites, as an example, and Death has 9 unique level 1 sites and 6 unique level 2's...

[Saxon]

Well, I make 66% of 70% to be 46%. That is not bad for those indies. You can always trade or alchemize the gems you don't need, but it could well be worth it.

Thanks again Endo

[Edratman]

The best way to site search is a recurrent thread that I have followed for more than a year.

There has never been any consensus or decisive determination of the best technique because of the limitations that are the backbone of the game.

Everyone acknowledges that level 4 search finds all sites, in that path, which is preferable to lower level searches. The problem is that no nation has the wherewithal to check all the 8 paths (not counting blood) at level 4, either with manual search or site searching spells. Everyone has path limitations, gem limits, etc, which define boundries to searching abilities.

Thus I have concluded that the correct answer to site searching is to do the best you can with the available resources combining manual and site searching spells. If a province already has 4 sites, don't search it anymore. If you have searched at level 1, it is worthwhile to search again at level 2 to 4. If you have searched at level 2 or 3, a level 4 search is only practical if you have the resources available and no other pressing need for them.

Of course, if you have 2 or 3 mages with all 9-paths at level 4 or better, a manual search is recommended.