quickness attack bonus?

[Endoperez]

Thanks to vfb for confirming this:


Spell quickness and bless quickness DO NOT STACK!

I don't know how long this has been the way it is, but Quickness given via the Water spells, Boots of Quickness or other items, Celestial Music of the monkey nations or whatever replaces the 50% quickness given by Water 9 bless. Bless + Quickness == 2x AP, twice the attacks/round.

I don't know how this works relative to Heroic Quickness.

[vfb]

I tested Heroic Quickness with a Harbringer (sent 15 at an indy on a test map and got lucky).

With no equipment or bless:

Basic Action Points: 16
Heroic Ability: +98%
Current Action Points: 31


With Jade Armor:

Basic Action Points: 16
Heroic Ability: +98%
Current Action Points: 46


With just W9 Bless:

Basic Action Points: 16
Heroic Ability: +98%
Current Action Points: 46


With W9 Bless and Jade Armor:

Basic Action Points: 16
Heroic Ability: +98%
Current Action Points: 46


So, stacking Heroic quickness with either spell quickness or W9 bless quickness works, but it is:

AP = (baseAP=16) * (1 + (heroic=.98) + (quickness=1)) Edit: wrong!

It's not base * 1.98 * 2. Edit: wrong!


For some reason spell quickness and W9 quickness give the same boost when stacked with Heroic Quickness!

Edit: No no no! KO has corrected the error of my ways, I forgot to take encumbrance into account. My next post is more correct.

[Endoperez]

Thanks, vfb! So at least Heroic Quickness always stacks with other kinds of quickness. Strange that this went unnoticed for so long...

[Kristoffer O]

Seems strange. I thought W9 gave 50% quickness. It is supposed to. Also it is an fx and not a ben. Fx's can add together. Ben's cannot. Ben's comne from items and spells. Ben's give +3att +3def.

Also AP should be lowered due to encumbrance if you have a Jade armor. Use boots and no armor instead to be certain of effects.

[sector24]

When my indy commanders get into the Hall of Fame, I pray for Heroic Quickness. In the game I'm currently playing I have a commander with +3 experience and Heroic Quickness (+148%). I gave him the Winter Bringer wand and he casts Falling Frost 4 times a round. Of course he knocks himself out pretty quick, but for those 2 or 3 rounds he's a total powerhouse.

[vfb]

Kristoffer O said:
Seems strange. I thought W9 gave 50% quickness. It is supposed to. Also it is an fx and not a ben. Fx's can add together. Ben's cannot. Ben's comne from items and spells. Ben's give +3att +3def.

Also AP should be lowered due to encumbrance if you have a Jade armor. Use boots and no armor instead to be certain of effects.

In my test scenario I had to hit next turn a couple time, so the Harbringer is now base:

Base Action Points: 16
Heroic Ability: +108 percent
Current Action Points: 33


With boots of quickness, he is:

Current Action Points: 66


With jade armor, he is:

Current Action Points: 50


With just a bless and no armor he is:

Current Action Points: 49


Argghh ... before I had co-incidental values. Thanks for the clarification, KO! Whoops! I didn't take encumberance into account.

So the formula when spell quickness is active is actually something like Code:

---

CurrentAP = (BaseAP - (Enc-1) + Power) * (1 + Heroic) * 2

---

And when only W9 bless is active it is Code:

---

CurrentAP = (BaseAP - (Enc-1) + Power) * (1 + Heroic) * 1.5

---

Is that right? I think before the '* 2' or '* 1.5' is applied, the value is floored/truncated/converted to int.

Anyway, the W9 bless and spell quickness don't stack, but I'll keep the heavy armor off my heroic quickness guys!

[Kristoffer O]

CAP= BAP * [1+(ben+fx)]

ben = 1 or 0, given by item or spell
Fx = incremental. Heroic starts at about .25 and bless is constant .50

I have no idea where encumbrance is added

[FAJ]

How do attacks and quickness work when you hold multiple weapons? Do you get another round of attacks with all your weapons or just one extra attack? I don't have my book on me, but how do multiple attacks work?

Say, if a Nataraja has 2 pairs of Gloves of the gladiator, horned helm, kicking boots and a stone bird. How many times does he attack? How many times would he attack if quickened?

[Endoperez]

Quickness grants another action. Action may consist of moving, moving and spending the rest of your points on full attack, or full attack. Full attack means that you attack with all of your weapons. There could be spellcasting instead of the full attack.

The Nataraja would attack 4+4 (gloves) + 1 (helm) +1 (boots) +1 (bird) = 11 times/full attack. With quickness, that'd be twice the actions, so twice the full attacks, so 22 attacks.

However, it's been "known" for a long time that a single full attack can only target one battle grid, and thus maximum of one giant/titan, or 3 humans; with quickness this would be two grid squares: 2 titans or 6 human infantries. I think some people have said something to the contrary before being silenced by this "knowledge", it could be that this, too, is false and that a dozen attacks actually kill a dozen militia. It should be pretty easy to test if someone felt like (dis)proving the fact.

[Gregstrom]

To tie this in with KO's post above:

An 'attack action' consists of all your attacks (as listed when you right-click on a unit's attack score?), and subtracts your BAP from your Action Points for the turn). I don't think it's possible to attack with less than your full number of attacks.

The whole 'extra attack' bit really means that when your CAP value is higher than your BAP, you may have AP left after making an 'attack action'. Those can then be used to attack again (or move, or whatever).

There's a good example of AP use on page 74 of the manual.

I actually find it confusing to think in terms of Quickness granting an action rather than extra AP (a legacy of my days spent playing Laser Squad, perhaps).

Also, thinking in terms of AP rather than actions may help if you need to factor in Haste as well as Quickness.

I'm guessing here, but does casting a spell set CAP to zero instead of subtracting BAP from CAP?