Can a Mage be Both Communion Slave *and* Master?

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They still count as communion slaves.

[Yrkoon]

So if you make the mages that come last in the unit ID order communion masters, and the unit with smaller ID numbers slaves, all the slaves can cast spells, plus they benefit of the spells cast by the master(s) (say earth power or power of the spheres), plus the masters have they paths boosted by the slaves (on top of earth power and power of the spheres in this case) ?!? Am I getting this right ?

[Meglobob]

I don't know the answer to that.

I do know if you try to be clever and have slaves/masters all casting every round, then by the end of the battle you will have alot of dead mages!

After killing several groups of 8 and 16 mages using communion slave/master, I give up on it!

I would just use communion slave/master in extreme emergency when you desperately need a certain high level spell and expect to lose the mages.

Fatigue = mage killer

[thejeff]

Yes.
Of course, the slaves only cast until they go unconscious, which happens sooner since they're casting. Easier to kill them off that way, too.

Also, the slaves only get the boost from path boosters they already have.

Here's a question though, if the master casts Summon Earthpower do slaves without any Earth magic get the reinvig?

[carlosib]

I used lots of communions in my last game and i learned that you have to take in consideration the objective of the communion at the moment of the setup. Communions are rather flexible and they allow some nice strategies, but if you lose the focus and try to cast a bit more than it can handle, then you can have some nasty results.
Just one word of advice, to get it right and dont lose a game to a bad planned communion always try it before in a SP test game. You'll be surprised of how many times you'll blow it just for a little detail and be glad you didnt test it in a MP game.
(I've been hours trying to setup communions to cast Fog Warriors and Doom + Bone Grinding x 2 as Ermor)

[Yrkoon]

thejeff said:
Yes.
Of course, the slaves only cast until they go unconscious, which happens sooner since they're casting. Easier to kill them off that way, too.

Also, the slaves only get the boost from path boosters they already have.

Here's a question though, if the master casts Summon Earthpower do slaves without any Earth magic get the reinvig?

I remember from another topic on communions that slaves get a boost to the paths they do not normally have for the purpose of calculating the fatigue they gain. In a communion of two slaves and one master, even a slave with 0 in a path will count as having 1 in that path when the fatigue is calculated.

Now, whether power of the spheres makes that 2, because the slave has a "pseudo path" of 1 due to the communion, or leaves the path at 1 because the slave's base path is 0, I don't know.

I will try it in my SP game as MA arcosephale. With astrologers and mystics, mass communions are easy to set up.

[Jazzepi]

AFAIK every boost a slave receives is realized when reducing fatigue even if it is not displayed.

Thus, a communion slave that lacks earth will have an effective score of +2 if two different, or one same, of the master(s) casts Summon Earth Power and Power of the Spheres.

The above bonus should also stack with the natural increase in slave casting levels from the communion.

Jazzepi

[thejeff]

I'll be interested in seeing the results of that test, Yrkoon.
I was pretty sure it didn't work that way. I'd thought that having a master cast spells from a path the slaves didn't have was a quick way to kill off the slaves.

I am 99% sure slaves do not get a boost from the master's booster spells towards casting their own spells, if they do not have the path in question, even if the boost applies to reducing fatigue from the master's spells.

Still curious whether side effects of the boosters, like Earth powers reinvig apply to slaves with the path.

[Baalz]

Yrkoon said:
Now, whether power of the spheres makes that 2, because the slave has a "pseudo path" of 1 due to the communion, or leaves the path at 1 because the slave's base path is 0, I don't know.

I've tested that out and it's true, psuedo paths do benefit from boosts *when* they're acting as slaves (not casting themselves). When casting by themselves only the paths they actually have are boosted.

So for instance, scripting 4 S1 mages to be slaves, then having your masters cast power of the spheres and phoenix power will leave you with slaves quite capable of soaking up some heavy fire casting.

The other way to play that is having (for instance) 10 S1 F1 mages scripted to be slaves, then two masters (last in order) cast phoenix power and power of the spheres. Your slaves will now all be able to spam falling fires, and with only two masters they're unlikely to kill anybody off once they're done vomiting fire all over the battlefield and pass out. If you've got a B1 guy (who can sabbath Master) have him scripted to cast reinvigoration when you think the slaves will be passing out and you'll get 10 falling fires per turn for 6 turns. Not bad for f1 s1 mages and one b1.

[MaxWilson]

Meglobob said:
I would just use communion slave/master in extreme emergency when you desperately need a certain high level spell and expect to lose the mages.

Fatigue = mage killer

I have found that regenerating mages have surprisingly high resilience in Communions (although they sometimes pick up afflictions too). Instead of regaining 5 fatigue per round, they effectively regain 5 + (regener * 10) fatigue per round because 1 HP = 10 fatigue. At least, that's what I remember, although I'm not at home to check. I'd probably try this with C'tis, and have one lizard shaman master cast Personal Regeneration while a bunch of Sauromancers used them as living batteries.

Regenerating personal guards + Soul Vortex works, too. I've done this as LA Agartha with sepulchrals (and DrPraetorius' undead blessing hotfix).

-Max