RE: "Upgrade" options between Dominion series.

[Edi]

Gooles said:

Yeah..... That's kinda my point. New versions usually don't require as much work as new games and the price tag should reflect that.

You will then kindly explain games like Thief 2, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Heroes of Might and Magic II, III, IV and V, Might and Magic I, II, III, IV & V, Might and Magic VI, VII & VIII and why all of those cost the full price of a new game despite being in many cases far less new versions of each other than DomPPP, Dom2 and Dom3 are?

Because if you are going to start down this path about whining why the game isn't a complete rewrite from the ground up and thus should not cost full price, I'm going to demand factual evidence to back up your claim that it is an industry wide standard. Especially since these days mere expansion packs often cost the full price of a new game.

[Archonsod]

Gooles said:
[1] I think you'll find that BF2124 sold but a fraction of games that BF2 did, and BF2 still has many filled servers, assuming that was what you were referring to. (I'll never understand why people buy new versions of a sports game annually)

No, I was refering to the fact that around 60% of their output are generic template games with different graphics. Although if you want to put comparisons on series up, spot the difference between Battle for Middlearth 1 & it's successor. How about the grandaddy of them all, Id's Doom & Doom II.

Games that graphically intense require nearly everything to be modified to fit the game's "mood" anyways. As well, companies big enough to have an Unreal engine usually don't use the same engine again

1. 90% of the code used by most games companies is generated by third party applications. There's actually very little new coding done these days, simply tweaking pre-made scripts to get the right values.
2. Depending on the licence, some companies will actually look specifically to code on an existing engine, simply to ensure they make back the money they spent.
3. GTA III - GTA:SA all use the exact same engine. The only alterations made to the code that couldn't have been done by a mod (given enough time) is the code optimisation. The rest was modular by design.
4. Graphics are hardly a big deal, and as far as coding goes they're usually one of the least time consuming areas. You'd piss more people off by releasing Doms 2 with a new 3D, pixel shaded interface and claiming it was a new game.

Yeah..... That's kinda my point. New versions usually don't require as much work as new games and the price tag should reflect that.

Not really. It can take longer to make a minor change to an existing program than it can to start from scratch. With new code, you don't need to worry about breaking the stuff that works, or indeed making sure what you are writing is compatible with something from several years ago.

[Gandalf Parker]

Gooles said:

Yeah..... That's kinda my point. New versions usually don't require as much work as new games and the price tag should reflect that.

Heehee. Nice concept but that isnt much of a deciding factor. The price needs to reflect what it takes to get us the next version. As far as Im concerned this game is a rare gem in a very limited market.

By the way, I own 5.

Gandalf Parker

[Gooles]

Hmmmm.... If I didn't know any better, I'd say I'm fairly outnumbered. I could post graphical pictures between two games in a series, show comparisons between hours spent between a new level in Unreal 2008 and a map in Dom3, but, I've no time and you all have valid and logikal reasons which I don't think I'll be able to prove wrong.

In the end, I've realized no matter how much time one puts into something, the end result is what's important. That just because a company spends 4 days installing CAT5 wiring in my house, it doesn't make the installation any better quality.

( BTW Gandalf, why buy 5 copies when you'll only use 1-3? Couldn't you just donate the extra money? =P ) Cheers all!

Edit~ removed comparison paragraph (and sentences relating to it) between dom3 and broad philosophical view that really didn't fit in... at all

[HoneyBadger]

Unlike mere mortals, Gandalf has the ability to play Dominions 3 on 5 computers at the same time-which he does in various corporate-sponsored charity multi-player games.
Unfortunately, while incredibly gifted, he is poor, and only owns one computer. The other four computers have been generously donated by friends, who retain ownership.

And that's why Gandalf was forced to use his mother's pension money to purchase 5 copies of Dominions 3.

[MaxWilson]

Edi said:
You will then kindly explain games like Thief 2, Thief: Deadly Shadows, Heroes of Might and Magic II, III, IV and V, Might and Magic I, II, III, IV & V, Might and Magic VI, VII & VIII and why all of those cost the full price of a new game despite being in many cases far less new versions of each other than DomPPP, Dom2 and Dom3 are?

On reflection, the difference between Might and magic II, IV, and V, or between Bards Tale I, II, and III, was new content, not a new engine or new rules. (XCom 2, Pac Man 2...) That is, people wanted to keep their old Bards Tales characters intact, in the same universe (imported between games, usually), but with a new storyline. The wargaming equivalent of this is new units and spells. Dominions is also a construction set of sorts, given the modding focus, and construction sets that allow users to create new content (Bards Tale Construction Set, Forgotten Realms Unlimited Adventures) want new content in the form of new commands and options. Illwinter is good about providing both of these kinds of new content, both relative to Dom2 and in patch updates. I've said before that I'm more eager for AI/UI improvements than new content, but given historical precedent it's hard to argue that Dom3 is somehow an update to Dom2 rather than a sequel.

-Max

[Gandalf Parker]

Hmmm Im abit confused by the post. It started out right.

I do have a 5 machine network at home. And I have 2 servers which I host Dom3 games on (one public and one beta). And actually I used my own pension money. Ive been retired for over a decade.

Now consider that not only do you not know if I am playing in your game, but you dont know how many nations Im playing in your game. MUHAHAhahahahahah!

[HoneyBadger]

Out of curiosity, Gandalf, if you don't mind-what did you do before you retired?

[HoneyBadger]

Oh, nevermind, you've got it on your homepage.

[HoneyBadger]

A couple of your links are broken by the way.