Dud nations

[Sombre]

Super-heavy armour nation of smiths. Based on germanic european culture.

Not all the nations in Dom3 have to exactly match up with a mythology or historical period.

[Gandalf Parker]

Is this supposed to be duds for multiplaying on blitz maps (small maps, few players)? I dont think you can expect agreements unless you set the parameters. Duds for MP blitz are very different than duds for RPG or for large maps or for alliances.

[HoneyBadger]

No, they don't have to "match" anything, but that's not what I meant.

If they *are* a "super-heavy armour nation of smiths", what does that translate into? What does it mean? Can they make iron constructs? are they mounted knights? Are they all Elrics armed with Stormbringers? Do they capture or employ Jotuns, cover them with beetle-armour and force them to fight?

Why should I want to play them over something else?

My point is that apparently they aren't very distinct or interesting, if they can't be said to *be* something beyond a description of their clothing and employment.

Such things might "make a man" but they don't make a national character.

So, who are they?

[Edi]

For an indepth analysis of EA Ulm units, see this thread.

I do not consider EA Ulm weak. It has some problem with its magics, namely low levels but good versatility. It has good units as long as you only use the female units and archers and possibly the iron and steel warriors.

Marverni could conceivably be a good nation to play, but it requires production scales to be able to pump out the good units. Ambibate Noble Warrior is one of the best EA infantry units. If you also have a F9 bless, the boar warriors provide with quite the shock potential early on.

I must say that I have not played very many nations at all, though I have a fair idea of strengths and weaknesses due to my familiarity with the units from making the DB.

I will also note that if some nation does not suit a particular player's play style, chances are that the player will suck with even a strong nation compared to something that does suit him.

[Sombre]

They /are/ a nation of smiths with super heavy armour. Have you actually ever played as them? No other nation has a selection of national troops like that. No other nation has forgebonus like that. So to answer your question, what does that translate into - it translates into MA Ulm. Plenty of people like their flavour. Maybe there's no accounting for taste. There's more to them than smiths and armour, it's just a general description, like EA Pangaea being 'the woodland halfmen'.

There are a few nations whose themes don't appeal to me in the slightest. To me they seem generic, uninteresting, cliched,... but I accept there are people who like them.

[Gandalf Parker]

EA Ulm has 6 stealth units and 4 non-stealth. And 3 stealth leaders with 1 non-stealth. Heavy on forest and mountain skills w/ defense against cold. That all seems built heavily into the theme. I suspect that discussing its pros and cons while ignoring that is going to miss the point.

If all nations are going to be compared on the basis of army-to-army open warfare then you will be able to seperate nations into great or duds but I dont think the comparison will mean much to the game in general.

[Xietor]

The description of Ulm as a race, says out of the ashes of Ermor they arose, and they disdain magic, and even priests, choosing to forge an empire on steel.

So they get crappy mages, crappy priests, poor mr, and then they do not even get the best units that rely on steel? Give me a break. And their units are resource hogs. maybe those great forgers of armor could make some lighter armor, just as strong, but less cumbersome so they can have better movement and defense.

maybe since they do not use preists(sermon of courage), they get superior training in steel, are more disciplined, and do not rout easily? But no, they have average morale.

True, they have good knights, but a nation with a few smiting priests make short work of them. Why should arcos get superior infantry to Ulm?

They have far superior priests, priests that heal afflictions no less, they have elephants, they have superior mages, access to broad magic, mind burn early on, and paralyze not far down the road. To top it off their infantry
is just grossly superior to ulm's in every way. they are not crippled with mr 9 either.

lol, and they even put ulms national spell to increase mr down a line it never uses and at 5th level no less. Cut ulm some small slack and stick it in construction(forge, makes sense you would research construction). And it is not like ulm can research well anyway with drain 3. Its own mages suck at research, and any indies you find suffer from drain 3.

And Ulm is not a race that should have to research. They rely on steel remember? They disdain magic and priests. Ok, that is great, do not make them rely on some spell to be viable.

[Sombre]

When you read 'steel' you clearly think 'trained from birth to be elite fighters'. When I read 'steel' I think they rely on their superior arming technology. Which would be the forgebonus and the availability of super heavy armour.

I'm not claiming that MA Ulm is good, or comparing them with anyone else, I just don't think anything in the descriptions indicates they should be amazingly skilled or brave fighters. What it does indicate to me is that they like to wear a lot of armour, they have more advanced weapons (such as the arbalest etc). And yes, they are resource hogs. That's a big theme of the nation.

[HoneyBadger]

I think EA Ulm is fine-it's got a lot of character, and I know it's armored barbarians with great smiths but not a lot of magic. Very easy to understand.

I was thinking about Middle-Era Ulm though, and why not have units equipped with the really excellent weapons that gave Romans so much trouble-like the Dacian Falx/Thracian Rhomphaia or the Falcata/Machiara, for instance.

Commanders could be equipped with useful low-power magical weapons-with the most powerful being a warrior weilding a herald's lance and riding a plate-armored elephant.

[normalphil]

I think MA Ulm is pretty much in its zone (even if the MR lowering got excessive; why are they below-average MR that national spells and drain-scales bring up to average? Shouldn't they be average MR that national spells and drain scales bring up to above average? How does a race of humans all of a sudden become suceptable to magic on a genetic level? Nobody else is.), but there's something that just never made sense to me; it's like there's this small hole in the faction-concept. No 'banner' units or commanders. Not even a hero with that effect. Everybody and their mother gets a unit like that, and in a faction when it fits without being in anyway a stretch, there isn't one.