Indep. Mages

[Edi]

I actually like most of the indie mages. True that none of them can hold a candle to dedicated national mages with similar paths, but for e.g. nations that don't get nature picks, most indies are absolutely invaluable to get it started, since even a N1 mage can find a lot of important nature sites (such as the various Enchantress sites).

Of the Amazons:

• Garnets provide cheap blood hunters and can provide a blood magic jumpstart to nations without blood. Gryphon Riders are expensive and of limited use, but fire immune infantry is always useful. Especially if you fight someone who likes barbecuing your troops.
• Jade Amazons have the most powerful mages and can provide W2, N2 and D1, depending on random picks and absolutely kick-*** sacred cavalry with the right bless.
• The Onyx Amazons have H2 priests that have a 50% D1 and 10% E1 on top of that AND mountain movement, plus their sacreds aren't too shabby, they just tire quickly. The sorceress is a guaranteed Death searcher for non-death nations and rare ones can get D2, which can open forging options. Decently armored, speedy mountaineer infantry, which can be good in EA games.
• Crystal Amazons are the worst. They provide guaranteed astral and A1, which can help find some air sites (Silver Order if you're lucky) and increase air income, but that's about it. Lizards are more common and also give astral, so the only use is for air really. And speedy archers, which most indies aren't, but not comparable to woodsmen for movement options.

Druids, Lizards and the various Tribal shamans all have N1 and possible other picks that (if they manifest) may or may not be useful depending on national magics.

I expect poptype indies to be more useful in longer games and large maps, depending on site frequencies and difficulty of research.

[thejeff]

Any of the sacred amazon troops are really nice if you're playing a strong bless strategy with capital only sacreds.

Even if the units aren't as good as national sacreds, they're still more sacred troops.

(Though the pegasi are annoying. I couldn't get them to not shoot, even with attack orders. They'd fly up, rout/slaughter the first squad, then start shooting at the next target. Waste of a F9W9 bless.)

[Manuk]

Some loose toughts about indies.

-Lizard Shamans rock. They cast Arcane probing and curse, 2 Very useful spells.
-Wolf Tribe Shaman are 10% death-1 = Dark Knowledge = Access to death.
-Other tribes shaman are less useful because with 1 air or 1 earth you can't do much and the Lion or Jaguar tribe are crappy.
-Druids don't look too impressive at plain 1 nature but they have the side-ability to call god if you mass them.
-Garnet sorceress = blood hunting = cool (is there other easy way to expand on blood?).
-Jade sorceress can clam specially at const 6 with the water bracelet.
-The Onix tribe have the priestess at Holy 2 = Sermon of courage, and they also can get magic paths at a cheap price.

At magic 3 any 110 gold shamans are great researchers for the upkeep cost.

The site mages are totally random but they can be even better than your national mages. The lore masters have 3 totally random magics. Enchantresses are very useful with they elemental knowledge. I got the Shadow seer in one of my MP games (astral 3 and ethereal) and I got them thanks to the indy lizardman shaman casting Arcane probing (nation: Pangaea).

edited, thanks micah

[Edi]

Tribals & other poptype independent mages, magic and survival skills

• Druid - N1H1, Forest
• Lizard - S1N1, Swamp
• Bear Tribe Shaman - N1H1, 10% E, Forest, Mountain, Waste
• Wolf Tribe Shaman - N1, 10% D, Forest, Mountain, Waste
• Deer Tribe Shaman - N1, 10% A, Forest, Mountain, Waste
• Lion Tribe Witch Doctor - N1, 10% FEDN, Forest
• Jaguar Tribe Priest - N1H1, 10% FWSB, Forest
• Toad Tribe Shaman - W1, 10% N1, Swamp, Amphibian
• Jade Priestess - N1H1, 20% W, Forest
• Onyx Priestess - H2, 50% D, 10% E, Mountain
• Garnet Priestess - H1, 50% B, 10% F, Waste
• Crystal Priestess - H1, 50% S, 10% A
• Jade Sorceress - W1N1, 25% WEDN, Forest
• Onyx Sorceress - E1D1, 10% D, Mountain
• Garnet Sorceress - F1B1, 10% B, Waste
• Crystal Sorceress - A1S1, 10% S
• Horticulturist - N1, 20% WE
• Hoburg Priest - H1, 10% N

Judge for yourselves.

[Shovah32]

Out of all those the only ones i MIGHT consider would be amazon sorceresses

[thejeff]

Onyx, Garnet and Crystal Priestesses don't require labs, just temples, but have a good chance of having magic.

I've lucked out and gotten 2N Lion Tribe Witch Doctors, which is worth it if you don't have nature on your nationals.

For blood hunting, Garnet priestess or Sorceress?

[Gandalf Parker]

Is this for considering them as researchers?
You mention terrain but not stealth.
And leadership.
And the priests who can be gotten for the price of a temple which I want to build alot of anyway so a priest with a chance of magic (especially if stealthy) makes it a real consideration for me. More than a province that will give me just cheap priests.

[Nix]

Whoa - never heard of the Toad Tribe.

[vfb]

If you can craft Skull Mentors, even the lowly Lion Tribe Witch Doctor turns into a good researcher. And they only need a Lab to be built.

[Edi]

Nix said:
Whoa - never heard of the Toad Tribe.

Independent Atlanteans reminiscent of the Rain Warriors of LA Mictlan. I don't know if that poptype is active (as in, can be randomly found in a game), but it exists.

Gandalf Parker said:
Is this for considering them as researchers?
You mention terrain but not stealth.
And leadership.
And the priests who can be gotten for the price of a temple which I want to build alot of anyway so a priest with a chance of magic (especially if stealthy) makes it a real consideration for me. More than a province that will give me just cheap priests.

For considering them as researchers and other things they can potentially do. But I wasn't about to start listing all of their stats here, that's what the DB is for if someone wants to do an indepth analysis. As far as the priestesses go, depends on price if they are worth it and what magic they have vs nationals. Of that lot, only the hoburg priest and druid are stealthy and have both holy and potential other magics, iirc.

For research purposes, all of the shamans are sacred (the wictor is not), so they only cost half upkeep, if that is a consideration.