Black heart - Page 3

thejeff · #21 March 23rd, 2007, 04:04 PM

It's good against stupid opponents.

Only stupid opponents won't have at least 1 PD. And there are plenty of ways to beat stupid opponents. Even the AI doesn't leave many provinces with no defenders.

Using 300gp mages to pick up a rare undefended province isn't very efficient. A scout wasting a turn is far cheaper. And the maeneads show where your pans are heading.

Shovah32 · #22 March 23rd, 2007, 04:07 PM

Using the pan you also get to see what forces and scripting the enemy has in the area without wasting a commander in an attack.

Taqwus · #23 March 23rd, 2007, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Londo_Mollari said:
...and for some RP, give a whip to your succubus

I admit to once running a (single-player; not MP-suitable, I'd think) Succubus with the Tartarian Chains. Actually, one could use both a whip AND the chains, because they're all one-handed weapons, but a Luck Shield or Faithful is probably a better use of the second hand slot.

Boots of Stone are going to be less effective than the Wraith Crown's ethereal + longdead, against many things, and prevent use of Boots of Quickness, but are a lot cheaper. Barkskin Amulet is a cheaper alternative for protection, at the cost of a misc slot and a penalty to fire resist.

Shovah32 · #24 March 23rd, 2007, 07:21 PM

Never use two long weapons(the chains are long right?) as the attack reduction on most commanders is pretty big.

Gandalf Parker · #25 March 25th, 2007, 12:42 PM

Quote:

Graeme Dice said:

Quote:

Ballbarian said:
They definitely do. As Gandalf has described before, they essentially become stealth bombers dropping naked ladies as they slip by. Catch a province with no defenders, and poof, it is yours.

This only works on provinces that have a province defense of 0. If your opponent has bought a single point of province defense, then the only thing that occurs is 5 or 6 points of unrest.

You can accomplish exactly the same effect on undefended provinces using 20 gold scouts.

Not quite exactly the same. The Pans at least province a check every turn to see if you have won the province. If there are no commanders then you can take it without having to test it with a commander. And if you slink a few provinces away before trying the trick again then you arent too easy to catch. Its not a foolproof tactic but its definetly a handy one.

Rytek · #26 March 26th, 2007, 07:43 AM

How about a Call of the Wild and use a werewolf. Blackheart, Lycanthrope Amulet,Heartfinder sword is a nice start to an assassin that cant be routed. And if you lose they get a chance at picking up the lycanthrope amulet.

Graeme Dice · #27 March 26th, 2007, 12:38 PM

Not quite exactly the same. The Pans at least province a check every turn to see if you have won the province. If there are no commanders then you can take it without having to test it with a commander.

[/quote]

This only works on independent provinces, and human controlled provinces with any province defense. A single point of province defense provides a commander is immune to assasination.

Gandalf Parker · #28 March 26th, 2007, 01:48 PM

The pan generates maenads even if you dont tell it to. IF you have ANY followers, even stealthy ones, the maenads will go into the pans assigned units. They are not stealth so you will immeadiately have a full fight including the pan and all of its units.

IF you have no units assigned to the pan then the maenads go to the assignment queue. If you dont own that province, they end up fighting. By themselves. Witohut un-hiding the pan (probably no such word but you get what I mean)

The werewolf cant quite do the same thing because if I remember correctly, you cannot tell it to generate wolves in a province you dont own.

Although.... Im required by my own tendencies to debate my own answer and at least consider this....
Hmmmm...
the werewolf would be fairly cheap. It would replenish its own army when its far afield if its given a turn or two in a province its taken. It would have supporters if its found sneaking around. Those are all things that make me use them now. Giving it the black heart... Im not sure if you could make a cheap assassin out of it. I think it would take some awfully expensive equipment to get it so it can kill commanders.

Maybe if you tried to turn it into a mage-killer. Lots of MR (magic resistance) equipment. It would be random whether you got a mage or not but it might become a tactic worth keeping in the toolbox if you find yourself facing armies where the mages are whats holding it together. Being cheap might make it worth trying.