The Middle Way - Faerun EA [Need Replacement]

[Tyrant]

I've actually played an all-player DomII game on this map, and i gotta say, the very concept of someone taking even 40% of the provences boggles the mind. That game ended in exhaustion at turn 120ish, long after an anonymous smart alec had Wished for the apocolypse SEVEN times. IIRC, there were 10 players left even still, castles in most provences, and 4 or 5 players with vast empires and defences so mighty that any thought of destoying them was madness. No one really did or could claim total victory, i think all of us that were big and mighty were satisfied that we had succeeded, and , by my way of thinking at least, anyone still alive at all got glory points.

I'm fine with any VP method that does not let someone win a cheap and easy victory, and perfectly happy to just count points when we are done.(or not if the graphs are off). To me, it is one of the virtues of Edi's masterpiece is that it is effectivly unconquerable and one is left to pursue one's fate in a local theater of the wider world.

[Amhazair]

Hmm, I'm afraid I'll have to go out to a birthday party around 8'ish CET = 2EST on saturday, so any afternoon blitz will be very short I'm afraid

Sunday I'm free as a bird (for now...)

[Tyrant]

I cannot blitz on Saturday, i could do sunday afternoon.

[Hellboy]

General Comments:

As I mentioned in my initial posts it is my intention to start w/ Hadrian's map and make some edits from there. That said, there are a couple of variations and issues that are worth discussing. Starting from Edi's original and most excellent work on the Faerun map, as contained in the file "Faerun_large_v2.rar" (for which I need to repair the link in the initial post, and will do so shortly), I think there are 2 critical changes which I will certainly include:

Removal of fixed start positions (as Hadrian did)
Removal of all indy fortresses

Less critically, but hopefully useful, I will closely examine the neighbor listing, and see if I can't fix any mismatches between the visual map borders and the neighbor list.


Starting Positions:

One thing I am quite certain of is that whether we have 16 players or 18 players, some player (or possibly more than one) will get screwed in their starting position. This is not a reason for restart, and this applies to everyone (including myself). If you happen to be that player, it would be much appreciated if you soldier on, and make life as inconvenient as possible for your better endowed neighbors. Also remember that in a diplomacy based game such as Dom3, coming from behind in even the worst starting positions is always possible.

All that said, I am more than happy to make some changes that will reduce the chances of players getting screwed and/or increasing the number of players (and perhaps adjusting the edit strategy to accommodate this).

For example, I know that one of the more likely ways to get screwed is to have your starting position come up in certain locations in the western islands (e.g. The Moonshae Islands). I could go through all of those, and make them all nostart, but I think that would be unwise as it would greatly increase the odds of starting close to another player (since so many land provinces would be eliminated as starting candidates) and it would also favor starting positions in the area of the Sword Coast (since they would have this big indy back yard area).

The better solution would be closely examine all those islands and make any one of them w/ 2 or less land neighbors a nostart. I can attempt this, but I would not want to be held accountable for missing one, and if someone still got screwed by landing in an island w/ just 2 neighbors, that would not be reason for restart.

All the above said, I still welcome input on this kind of edit, and the number of players we start with (especially from anyone w/ experience on or knowledge of the Faerun map).


Other Faerun Edits:

The main other point for discussion is the VP provinces that Hadrian set up. Personally, I like the idea that there are a number of very tough provinces out there, and that they would remain indy until the time in the game when the Uniques are beginning to be summoned. At least so long as the rewards for those provinces are correspondingly high.

From playing on Hadrian's map, I have the impression that his VP provinces are just as I have described above. However, I don't have a ton of experience on his map, and so I'd like to open up the discussion on that point. Also, if someone wants to make the point that Edi's "Faerun_large_v2.rar" file, w/ the map file "Faerun_large.map" has better special locations than Hadrian's version, then I'd be willing to consider that, as well.

However the editing procedes, the one goal that I intend to stick to, however, is that there are a number of special provinces that are impractical to take w/ just your national troops.

[Hellboy]

Tyrant said:
I've actually played an all-player DomII game on this map, and i gotta say, the very concept of someone taking even 40% of the provences boggles the mind. That game ended in exhaustion at turn 120ish, long after an anonymous smart alec had Wished for the apocolypse SEVEN times. IIRC, there were 10 players left even still, castles in most provences, and 4 or 5 players with vast empires and defences so mighty that any thought of destoying them was madness. No one really did or could claim total victory, i think all of us that were big and mighty were satisfied that we had succeeded, and , by my way of thinking at least, anyone still alive at all got glory points.

I'm fine with any VP method that does not let someone win a cheap and easy victory, and perfectly happy to just count points when we are done.(or not if the graphs are off). To me, it is one of the virtues of Edi's masterpiece is that it is effectivly unconquerable and one is left to pursue one's fate in a local theater of the wider world.

This sounds like good & relevant experience. I would say that this sort of outcome would be good (maybe even desireable). Based on this I think that for a victory condition, going as low as 40% of the provinces is reasonable, and that even then we may well not see any clear victor (at least not by province count alone).

[RamsHead]

I know I am not participating in this game, but I thought I might be able to help out. With regards to the Western Islands, you can place a Navigators Guild in one of the provinces. I think the magic site allows you to recruit sailing commanders.

[Foodstamp]

*****Possible spoiler warning******





















I am not 100% certain, but I believe in dominions 2 this map had a navigator's guild in the Waterdeep province. If all the special provinces are still intact from the transition to dominions 3, you may not even need to add a navigator's guild.

[Amhazair]

Foodstamp said:
*****Possible spoiler warning******





















I am not 100% certain, but I believe in dominions 2 this map had a navigator's guild in the Waterdeep province. If all the special provinces are still intact from the transition to dominions 3, you may not even need to add a navigator's guild.

Still spoilering...





Actually, it's in Luskan.

[RamsHead]

More spoilers...


Actually, I just checked my dom 2 version and there are several nav guilds. One in Calimport, one in Baulder's Gate, one in Waterdeep, and one in Luskan. I don't remember where these provinces are off the top of my head, but they may already be placed in good position.

[Evilhomer]

Regarding starting positions:

Is there anything wrong with placing 16 (2 water) fixed starting position (evenly spaced and all atleast decent)?

Yes we would know from start where the other starts are but not what nation, and more importantly, this will give all atleast a fair startingposition.