Which nations need bennies?

[Tyrant]

Back to the original topic- EA Ulm needs help. Their troops are pretty crummy- only one unit has a shield, and it has only a short sword to go with it. Their mages, while not awful are earth/nature and therefore lack killing power. In a nutshell this nation has lots of "tools" (fast units, terrain bonuses, CR, stealth etc) but completly lacks raw power. The one thing i will say for them is that their inadequate units are reasonably priced. They need, at a minimum, either some good low level national summons or a better caster. I don't really have a good idea for a thematic summons though.

Other than KD, already mentioned, no other nation is really jumping out as underpowered off the top of my head. I will say that i have to disagree about Caelum- mammoths seem to me to be a great answer to hordes of scum ,their casters are excellent, and they get lots of free design points becasue of the cold.

[HoneyBadger]

How does EA Ulm's magic resistance compare to other nations? Thematically, it makes sense that they might have a boost to MR and if they don't that might be a good way to even them out, if it's felt to be needed.

[Endoperez]

EA Ulm has access to: 1) All elements. 150% random gives both Shamans and Smiths have a 50% chance of either Fire random (to Magma line of spells) or E2 (to Earthpower and Blade Wind) from both randoms. Their problem is weak access to Water line of Evocations; their units would make it very good if they had easier access to Water casters. Some Smiths will have one pick, very few might have 2. If your pretender can build Robe of the Sea (or you wait to Constr 6 and Water Bracelets) you can start forging boosters with the Smiths.

E2N2 is enough for Earth Power/Blade Wind, which is more than fine in EA, and Sleep, which gives them one low-level counter to tough units if they can deal damage via other ways. Their normal units should be able to finish up e.g. Niefel Giants if the Sleep strikes them unconscious. They have some heavy-duty damage-dealing units in all their double-attackers, VERY good armor for EA humans, and forge bonus and tough national commanders. N2 gives access to Thistle Maces, and N3 is fine for Charm, berserk-line of spells, Haste and few other Enchatments (inluding Regeneration and Mass Regeneration).

They would benefit from having access to MA Ulm's Tempering the Will. MA Ulm doesn't use it because MA Ulm gets nothing else from Thaumaturgy; EA Ulm on the other hand gets Charm and the berserk spells.

[FrankTrollman]

Deleted

[Twan]

The witch doctors aren't very effective battle mages except if you have lots of gems to spend to boost them or a very high research, and Machaka military forces are far to worth most other nations units (you have no niefel giants to kill in ME and the big spiders aren't very efficient against lots of smaller opponents).

To resume you have one capitol only rather good sacred unit, one cost effective rather good infantry unit, but they have mapmove 1 and cost 27 ressources, some ultra-light units you will replace by independants if you can, and some ultra expensive extra units you will perhaps use a little if you are one of the first powers with an income in the several thousands category. Then you have a good choice of mages and priests, more or less sufficient to compensate the weaknesses in all other areas.

Anyway Machaka ends rather good with a good magical strategy and doesn't need a big boost IMO.

[HoneyBadger]

I'm not personally complaining about Machaka, they seem alright to me, but I have heard some convincing arguments against them. My position is that Atlantis's sacred unit needs help. I also think R'lyeh Aboleths is weak. I think, as far as Province Defense goes, a major overhaul is needed, and I have some ideas for that which I'll eventually post for review. I tend to agree about the witch doctors-I don't think they should start off old, and the mechanics by which they transform could perhaps use a little tweaking. In EA, lion-tribe warriors are some of the nicest independent footsoldiers you can find, and Machaka seems to have been based on these. They aren't quite as good in Middle Age, but still fine. I'll be happy to see Machaka in EA, but not much wrong with them now.

[Endoperez]

HoneyBadger said:
I'm not personally complaining about Machaka, they seem alright to me, but I have heard some convincing arguments against them. My position is that Atlantis's sacred unit needs help. I also think R'lyeh Aboleths is weak. I think, as far as Province Defense goes, a major overhaul is needed, and I have some ideas for that which I'll eventually post for review. I tend to agree about the witch doctors-I don't think they should start off old, and the mechanics by which they transform could perhaps use a little tweaking. In EA, lion-tribe warriors are some of the nicest independent footsoldiers you can find, and Machaka seems to have been based on these. They aren't quite as good in Middle Age, but still fine. I'll be happy to see Machaka in EA, but not much wrong with them now.

Actually Machaka was available in DomII, but the Lion Tribe only appeared in Dom3. But yes, one is based to the other.

[Twan]

Personnally if a change is to be made affecting Machaka I would like a change of light units prices/upkeep affecting all nations. With all human non elite units with 7 or less protection having a cost of 8 gold instead of 10 (and very low morale + low protection militias say 6 gold), the machaka low ressources cost and high mapmoves infantry would become really interesting. Armors need to be made by artisans and repaired, so it seems logical that units with a chain mail cost a little more than naked ones (or quasi naked ones).

As it is Machaka will prefer to recruit any indep unit in medium armor, as paying the same price/upkeep for troops one shoted by anything isn't very cost efficient. I think with a specific price for leather/naked infantry, using the machaka warriors, will become more a valid choice (one more mapmove / more ap at the price of the 4-7 protection most light indies have).

ps : witch doctors aren't old, only black sorcerers and some sorceress are (as for most human nations, the best capitol only mages are the older)

[DrPraetorious]

Well, I agree with Twan in principle - *national* light infantry should cost less money, if that is most of what you get. Slingers actually do seem to get this discount. Independent light infantry should not.

This way, Machaka and possibly even Mictlan would actually field their scum from the huts of scum. Right now I'll put a few of them scattered in front of my hoplites as skirmishers and that's it.

However, that is too drastic a change for this context. If we want to make Machaka light infantry more practical, we can consider things like a cheap, area-of-effect, machaka national stoneskin? Or barkskin. Spiderskin!

An area of effect version of barkskin, for HH, would do a lot to improve those guys. That'd be pretty cool. I've always thought that Machaka should have some reason to send the Voice of the Lord into combat. Does anyone know anything about ethiopian orthodox liturgy? I recall reading somewhere that medieval europeans believed that there was a christian king in north africa who had knights that rode on giant ants. I've always assumed this was a partial inspiration for Machaka. Anyone know this reference?

[Potatoman]

Mind Lords are actually pretty vicious super-combatants. The ones with earth randoms get ironskin, which combined with all the astral buffs, quickness, AOE life draining attacks, and almost 90 HP is tough. They also have 20 base MR and easy access to ring of regeneration. Doesn't suck!

Unfortunately, once you get past the capitol-only mind lords, the rest of the nation is garbage. Slave mages NEED the possibility of an air random, because your pretender needs to be an SC to expand and you need amulets to make landfall.