Eater of the Dead

[Nerfix]

I've actually used Fists of Iron as a combat spell back in Dom I. It was a riot with Earth 9 Cyclops casting it.

[Corwin]

NTJedi said:

Considering that it's 50 astral gems for one creature with low magic resistance that turns independent once it's moderately strong and requires 4 astral and 4 death just to cast the spell definitely places it near the top of worst spells. The spell is not only difficult to cast, but the creature is not even worth 8 astral.

I agree. This spell may be not the worst, but it is extremely overpriced for what it does. Which is a pity, because the idea behind the spell is very cool IMHO.

[NTJedi]

quantum_mechani said:
Ok, if you like...

Lets start with Wrath of the Sea. 70 gems and I can tell you, I'd take an eater of the dead instead in all but the most unlikely circumstances.

Then there are spells like Hand of Dust, when was the last time you saw it cast, let alone accomplish anything?

Or there is poor Curse of Stones, easily negated weak effect that hits both you and the enemy, and even costs gems.

Or take a look at arcane domination, scarcely easier to cast than master enslave, but you could play 10000 games without running into a situation where it would be more advantageous to cast.

And good luck finding a situation to use Blood Heal or Pain Transfer, by the time you need it your blood slaves are long dead.

I could conceive of using the eater of the dead, in a situation without access to any other summons using astrals. Not to say it's not very weak for the cost though, I wholeheartedly agree it needs a boost.

Hand of dust doesn't cost any gems thus any gamer having to choose between casting hand of dust 4 times during a game or casting eater of the dead 4 times while still having access to other spells would wisely not waste the 200 astral gems to cast eater of the dead. So even tho hand of dust is not very useful it's definitely not worse.

Curse of stones... sure it hits both you and the enemy... its more of a spell for special situations. This spell is easier to cast and cost less gems. Not worse... not even close.

Arcane domination... just because an identical spell is better doesn't make this a bad spell. I'd rather cast two arcane dominations compared with wasting 50 gems on eater of the dead. Arcane domination is not good, but definitely not worse than eater of the dead!

Blood Heal or Pain Transfer... sure these spells have no real value, but again any gamer would rather cast any one of these spells three times compared with wasting 50 gems on one eater of the dead. Thus definitely not worse.

Wrath of the Sea is a bad spell, also near the top of worst spells I agree.

[NTJedi]

quantum_mechani said:
Still, such things are pretty rare (particularly for a specific spell) and are unlikely to have the same impact on a game as being able to spend astrals on eater of the dead vs. if you had no other astral summons.

Ether Gate is 90 gems, but it's easier to cast (conjuration_6 instead of conjuration_8) and you recieve some very powerful magic units and a powerful commander with magic paths.
I will gladly send one of my Ether Gate armies(90_gems) against two of your eater of the deads(100_gems).

[quantum_mechani]

NTJedi said:

Hand of dust doesn't cost any gems thus any gamer having to choose between casting hand of dust 4 times during a game or casting eater of the dead 4 times while still having access to other spells would wisely not waste the 200 astral gems to cast eater of the dead. So even tho hand of dust is not very useful it's definitely not worse.

Curse of stones... sure it hits both you and the enemy... its more of a spell for special situations. This spell is easier to cast and cost less gems. Not worse... not even close.

Arcane domination... just because an identical spell is better doesn't make this a bad spell. I'd rather cast two arcane dominations compared with wasting 50 gems on eater of the dead. Arcane domination is not good, but definitely not worse than eater of the dead!

Blood Heal or Pain Transfer... sure these spells have no real value, but again any gamer would rather cast any one of these spells three times compared with wasting 50 gems on one eater of the dead. Thus definitely not worse.

Wrath of the Sea is a bad spell also near the top of worst spells I agree.

Well it depends how you define worst spell. My definition was 'What spell would I least care if it were removed from my spell list?'. All the spells I mentioned, I would pretty much not care at all if every other player had access to them but me. Not having Eater of the Dead on the other hand, I would feel was an ever so slight disadvantaged, since I could conceive of lacking better methods of directly converting astral gems to military power.

So, yes, the battlefield spells don't hurt as much to try cast them, but on the other hand have even less reason to _want_ to.

I also don't think you fully comprehend Curse of Stones uselessness. With mr easily negates, only maybe 1 out of 10 of mr 10 troops is going to be effected by it. So, you have no prayer of effecting any significant units like pretenders, and versus a large army, a small percent of the army will tire slightly faster...

That sounds pretty weak, but it would be a huge step up from what it currently does, hitting _your_ army as well. In other words, you have a spell with a highly marginal effect, that destroys whatever tiny advantage it might have achieved, by hitting your army too. If it took no research, 1e and only 1 gem, I still would never cast it. I think the 'special situation' you are thinking of for it is the insanity of the player considering it.

[dirtywick]

Curse of Stones is a good spell in conjunction with Flaming Arrows and a bunch of archers. Machaka is probably the best candidate for it. So what if it effects your guys too? If your shooting Flaming Arrows you kind of want everyone to stand around anyway, even your own guys.

It's not awful, not the greatest, but not awful.

[quantum_mechani]

dirtywick said:
Curse of Stones is a good spell in conjunction with Flaming Arrows and a bunch of archers. Machaka is probably the best candidate for it. So what if it effects your guys too? If your shooting Flaming Arrows you kind of want everyone to stand around anyway, even your own guys.

It's not awful, not the greatest, but not awful.

You do realize that it doesn't actually stop the units from moving, just adds to encumbrance? Flaming arrows is an extremely potent spell, I would advise trying it without the curse of stones and see how much difference you notice.

[dirtywick]

Each step costs an AP, and I thought that makes them move across the battlefield more slowly. Maybe it's just my imagination though.

[moodgiesanta]

Well as far as useless spells go I think we're all forgetting Raven's Feast. You pratically have to mass-pillage a capital province for it to return more death gems than you could get through alchemy. I guess it could have a use as Ashen Empire Ermor, but I killed around 10,000 people in a capital province and got only like 7 death gems back. And those dead bodies could have been an absolutely massive horde of soulless. It's a shame too because it could really have a lot of use in conjunction with the raiding spells of nature, you know, cast a spell at an undefended province, pillage and kill before the enemy armies can react, and gather up the dead bodies as death gems.

[KissBlade]

moodgiesanta said:
Well as far as useless spells go I think we're all forgetting Raven's Feast. You pratically have to mass-pillage a capital province for it to return more death gems than you could get through alchemy. I guess it could have a use as Ashen Empire Ermor, but I killed literally 25,000 people in a capital province and got only 7 death gems back. And those dead bodies could have been an absolutely massive horde of soulless. It's a shame too because it could really have a lot of use in conjunction with the raiding spells of nature, you know, cast a spell at an undefended province, pillage and kill before the enemy armies can react, and gather up the dead bodies as death gems.

This spell has my vote for worst spell ever. I would actually use Eater of the Dead to taunt someone or something. Plus the Dom III Eater of the Dead got a MR boost in dom III so it's not quite so weak to magic anymore. Not a great spell but heck it does beat Curse of Stone at least.