SE:V, I'll be honest

[frightlever]

I stopped posting here about a week or two ago when people with a negative view were more or less getting hounded off the forums. Interesting to come back to this as one of the latest threads with a majority of the posters unlikely to buy the game at release.

I want SEV to succeed as much as the next guy but I'm not emotionally invested in MM or Aaron Hall. I give him money he gives me a game, much the same as a supermarket and food. If he was doing it for free then fair enough but he's doing it for money (and no, I don't work for free either but I don't expect blind faith from my clients either. It would be nice though...) and specifically he's doing it for Strategy First's money and we'll be paying them. By all accounts from the beta testers he's ignored valid concerns over the UI and makes next to no effort to engage his users. This isn't charity so could the next guy who tells me MM is a one man band and we should cut him some slack please explain why?

In fact if you want a real conspiracy theory SEV can be buried in mediocrity while SF has their East European coders knock out SE6 the real time strategy game a la Warcraft 3. Jagged Alliance 3D anyone?

I really want to buy SEV and enjoy it and I'll probably STILL buy the game on release if it hits Steam. The real question is whether I'll still be playing it in five years time.

And to Marc420, my brother in disdain for 3D froo froo crap, Amen!

[Fyron]

frightlever said:
I stopped posting here about a week or two ago when people with a negative view were more or less getting hounded off the forums.

Did I miss some posts somewhere? I never saw anyone "hounded off the forums." Sure, there were a few people reading way too much into things, but not much more than that. It's a discussion forum, so of course people will post some contrary opinions to whatever else gets posted. That is hardly hounding anyone off the forums.

[Black_Knyght]

Captain Kwok said:
Although you've been biased against SE:V from the onset - long before the demo became available.

Not that I care. If you like a game, you like it. If you don't then you don't - it doesn't matter much to debate about it. But if it's just a few issues you're having that's preventing you from having fun, share them and pass them on. It's likely you're not the only one feeling this way and lots of things can change right?

Interesting....

Yes, I expressed my personal opinions several times BEFORE the release of the SEV Demo. I said that the direction SEV seemed to be going didn't appeal to me, or what it's new focus was going to be.

But, having a negative point of view about something you're not fond of when others are is known as biased.

When the SEV Demo was released I downloaded it and gave it a fair try, rather than ingore it, berate it, or comment on it out of ignorance. I am willing to address issues with an open mind because I am, admittedly, right and wrong about things in equal measure.

I tried it, and found it not to be to my liking, to have numerous issues, to be exactly what I was concerned it would be. Like many others I expressed those thought and opinions.

But, having a negative point of view about something you're not fond of when others are is known as biased.

I listened to other points of view and suggestions, tried them out, and still ended up with the same opinion. In fact, I've tried the Demo now several dozen times. I've tried new directions, offered suggestions, the works. It does not grab my attention the way SEIV did, I'm not fond of it, and I thought to express those thoughts here in the forum provided for them.

But, having a negative point of view about something you're not fond of when others are is known as biased.

The issues I have with it have also been expressed by others as well. I added my voice to theirs, not with biased intent to simply tear it down, but in hopes that something somewhere might be done to improve what I feel are flaws within it. It's not a matter of "just a few issues you're having that's preventing you from having fun", it's a total combination of things as a whole that I'm not thrilled with.

But, having a negative point of view about something you're not fond of when others are is known as biased.

No, I don't like where it went, how much effort goes into playing it now, dealing with the various flaws and bugs, needing to adapt to this or mod that to get what seems like it should've already been there. But, I've also given it several fair efforts to change my point of view, and it has still failed to do so.

I guess if not liking it after that is biased, then yes - I'm biased.

[Black_Knyght]

frightlever said:
I stopped posting here about a week or two ago when people with a negative view were more or less getting hounded off the forums

Interesting perspective. I seem to recall feeling pretty much the same way, though I was basically very politely told I was full of it and "biased".

Glad to see I'm not the only one who saw that around here....

[Captain Kwok]

To clarify, the "only a few things" comment was directed at players who have only a couple of items standing between them and being happy about the game. Not everyone who's had problems with the SE:V demo.

BK, I never saw anyone call you full of it. I merely said you went in biased because you made a point of posting a lot that you weren't going to abandon SE:IV for SE:V just because it was new. And it was mostly a jest as I added a "razz'.

I hope no one thought I was hounding them. My goal was for players who were having issues to forward them to MM etc. Hence most of reply posts was directed players to report bugs/annoyances... so nah.

[Matryx]

My goodness, another conspiracy pops up. Can you still not see that no-one has intended to drive anyone away?
Apologies and clarifications were forthcoming the last time you said this, and now given that you now say you feel we told you that you were full of it, I dread to think how you read the most innocuous posts :/

In all frank honesty, other people's concerns about a game don't get me bothered - there's plenty of other people I would end up playing with, so you don't see me jumping to defend any point here or there unless I know it's incorrect and no-one else has explained it. I *know* I'm going to enjoy the game, so I'm happy to sit quietly and leave others to their opinions.
I would agree with Kwok's statement though, historically you've been fairly anti-SE5 so yes you do come across as biased - not that it's necessarily a *bad* thing mind you - you can't ever get a balanced opinion on a subject, but again as Kwok said - there's nothing to debate really - If you like it, great. If you don't - share the reasons and move on (er, back) to other games.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - the only reason I ever hung out with the community is because they've always been so level-headed and welcoming. Hell, I take 2 or 3 year breaks between posts sometimes and yet the community doesn't change. There is no hounding out of the forums for negative opinions, but equally there's no need to repost the same things over and over. Directions to adress things straight to MM is purely because Aaron is very distant from the community as a whole (imo), but when people send things to him he does read them, given these facts now perhaps you can see that the perceived hounding you had was merely misinterpreting helpful advice?

[Black_Knyght]

Captain Kwok said:
To clarify, the "only a few things" comment was directed at players who have only a couple of items standing between them and being happy about the game. Not everyone who's had problems with the SE:V demo.

BK, I never saw anyone call you full of it. I merely said you went in biased because you made a point of posting a lot that you weren't going to abandon SE:IV for SE:V just because it was new. And it was mostly a jest as I added a "razz'.

I hope no one thought I was hounding them. My goal was for players who were having issues to forward them to MM etc. Hence most of reply posts was directed players to report bugs/annoyances... so nah.

In the interest of clarity, let me state that it seemed to me that you were adressing me personally, since the post was directed to me. And I didn't realize or catch that you might be "razzing" me. Being refered to as biased because I had my doubts and expressed them also tends to raise my hackles a bit. I frequently say what I think or feel, but I always give things a fair chance to prove me wrong.

As to being "full of it", no - no one has directly used those words, but I have been told "your wrong,that's not what's happening here" or "i don't see that around here" or "that doesn't happen around here". Basically - I'm full of it if I say it seems like negative viewpoints are being hounded. And yet, obviously it's NOT strictly my point of view. I've quoted others with the same perspective for a reason. I'm not trying to pick a fight or be difficult. I am trying to point out something evident not only to me, but several other people here as well. evident enough that some have even stated they quit coming here for a while because of that.

I have said many times I'm not abandoning SEIV for SEV, that's true. I never once said I wouldn't give SEV it's fair shake, only that I wasn't in favor of the changes that were being incorporated into it. When the Demom was released I downloaded it, tried it, expressed my problems with it, acted on the suggested responses, and still didn't feel happy with it. I continued to try to see beyond the issues that bug me, and still nothing changed. And, once again, I expressed what and why I wasn't happy with it. My not being rabidly in favor of the game has drawn a fair bit of flack.

[Xrati]

We all come here for the same reason. Sometimes it's to 'agree to disagree' and how we do that reflects on the people who post. Nobody comes here to insult anyone or berate them. We all have our beleifs and opinions, but we need to consider others when we post. Enough said. Feel free to express yourself and please enjoy those freedoms and respect your fellow players/board posters.

[Ludd]

OK, all together now.....

I'd like to build the world a home
And furnish it with love
Grow apple trees and honey bees
And snow-white turtle doves

Chorus:
I'd like to teach the world to sing
In perfect harmony
I'd like to hold it in my arms
And keep it company
(That's the song I hear)
I'd like to see the world for once
(Let the world sing today)
All standing hand in hand
And hear them echo through the hills
For peace throughout the land
That's the song I hear
(That's the song I hear)
Let the world sing today
(Let the whole wide world keep singing)
A song of peace that echoes on
And never goes away

(Repeat 1st stanza and Chorus)

Put your hand in my hand
Let's begin today
Put your hand in my hand
Help me find a way

(Repeat Chorus til fade)

[RonGianti]

frightlever said:
I stopped posting here about a week or two ago when people with a negative view were more or less getting hounded off the forums.

*snip*

Funny, I feel exactly the opposite. I'm feeling hounded off the forums because a handful of people hijack threads with constant whining about minor issues.

I'm enjoying the demo and made to feel like I should not be because of minor issues.

In all the threads I've read, I've seen the beta testers here answering questions with more patience than I would have for the constant whiners. I've seen a number of posts that read more like a list of demands than questions and instead of ignoring them, the beta testers patiently answer questions and acknowlege issues.