SEV question - new design tech levels? - Page 3

Kana · #21 September 21st, 2006, 05:48 PM

Well it would be nice, if the next level of research could have a different 'flavor name' or something to that effect...I can see instances in some mods I want to make where it would be more appropriate to have a name for a new improved version of a component, than just a alpha/numeric increase in name...

PvK · #22 September 21st, 2006, 06:05 PM

Seems like it is nearly removing an option that existed in SE4. Many of the techs in Proportions mod, for example, can be researched to high levels for eventually diminishing returns but high costs. They are still useful to use for elite units, but one may consider whether they want fewer units with the best technology can offer, or cheaper more numerous units with less impressive technology.

In addition to the other uncountered reasons why someone might want to use lower tech, here's another: What if you want to build a new ship design, but don't want enemies to be able to scan it and find out your tech levels, or you want to deceive them into thinking you have lower tech than you do? Better use an old design, because it's just impossible to make new designs using old tech?

But no, I just have to remember to pre-make designs with enough of the old components on them to be able to copy and edit later - so I can still do it (except for different hull sizes I haven't researched yet), but only if I waste time making extra designs just to give me options I otherwise won't have because the UI won't let me.

PvK

AgentZero · #23 September 21st, 2006, 06:15 PM

It'd be especially handy for multiplayer where you sometimes end up building lots of ships to trade, but don't want them to have the highest tech, or even if you're just building scouts that you know have a good chance of winding up captured, you don't want to give your enemies free tech.

The thing is, the way the tech works in SE5, each tech level doesn't have it's own entry, there's just the one entry for a certain field (ie: Meson Blasters) and then a formula describes what happens as you increase in tech.
In SE4, you had seperate entries for each tech level, so each level of tech could be seen as a seperate object, so in SE4, you had 10 different Meson Blasters, each with it's own stats, whereas in SE5 you have 1 Meson Blaster with stats that vary according to your tech level.

So, while it'd sure be nice to use older tech, it's probably not feasible in SE5.

Edit: Unless there was an option in the design screen that said 'Use Current Tech' or 'Use Tech X Generations Old' where X is a user definable number. Then a formula could be applied to the current techs to 'reverse' them to the level you desired. Of course, it'd be kinda clunky if you wanted to use engines that were 5 techs old, APBs that were 10, shields that were 7 etc., but it's the only way I can think of doing it.

Slick · #24 September 21st, 2006, 06:22 PM

AZ: I dunno. The game works fine with older techs that are already in use. I can't see why it would be harder than adding a selector for component level.

I'd like to be able to compare different levels of component also so that I can see what I'm getting for my research. Right now it's hard to tell if you are getting deminishing returns; especially if you haven't used the last version anywhere.

Kamog · #25 September 21st, 2006, 06:27 PM

How can you tell what version of hull is used in your old ship designs? Does it say anywhere what level of frigate hull, for example, was used in a particular ship design?

I could only try to figure it out by looking at the structure kT...

When copying an outdated component from an old ship design, is there a way to install the old component into a newer hull version? For example, say you have a saved design for an old frigate level 1 which has a depleted uranium cannon level 1. You have now researched up to frigate level 2 and DUC level 2. Is there a way to copy the DUC1 from the old design and place it onto a frigate level 2?

AgentZero · #26 September 21st, 2006, 06:32 PM

That's a good point, Slick. Tech comparison chart anyone?

What I was getting at with the 'Use X Generations Old' idea was that while it's probably possible to add in the ability to select what tech levels you want, something like SE4's View All/Only Latest probably wouldn't be feasible. Not that I'm sure one would want it to be, given the number of techs that go up to 100.

PvK · #27 September 21st, 2006, 06:35 PM

Hmm, and I suppose if you did make a mod where different levels were different techs, then it wouldn't be possible to only see the latest ones.

AgentZero · #28 September 21st, 2006, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Kamog said:
How can you tell what version of hull is used in your old ship designs? Does it say anywhere what level of frigate hull, for example, was used in a particular ship design?

I could only try to figure it out by looking at the structure kT...

Not that I'm aware of. The only place where a hull's level is mentioned is in the ship selection portion of the design screen, & that only shows the latest hulls available.

Quote:

When copying an outdated component from an old ship design, is there a way to install the old component into a newer hull version? For example, say you have a saved design for an old frigate level 1 which has a depleted uranium cannon level 1. You have now researched up to frigate level 2 and DUC level 2. Is there a way to copy the DUC1 from the old design and place it onto a frigate level 2?

Not yet.

Suicide Junkie · #29 September 21st, 2006, 06:53 PM

How about having "Used", "New", and "Bleeding Edge" versions of each component.

This would be an actual use for filters, too!

New components could be normal as we are all used to.
Used components could be half price, and -5 levels worth.
Bleeding Edge components could be double price and +3 levels worth

Suicide Junkie · #30 September 21st, 2006, 06:59 PM

Another way to do it would be a variation of SE4 style, with two entries for every component...

One copy of the component (level X) requires EXACTLY tech level X, and will dissappear when you get level X+1. It gets a category of "Show Only Latest".

The other copy of component (level X) requires tech level X or higher. It gets a category of "Show All"

There should then be two filter options, the Show All and the Show Only Latest, which do as they say.

The downside is that you won't be able to build any ships designed using the "only latest" components once you have advanced in tech (Since they will become unavailable, which looks the same as insufficient tech)