OT: - Real life dominions

[Agrajag]

Fate said:
I think that how this really needs to be seen as is the stone that broke the camel's back. From my (poor) american perspective, the entire middle east has been on fire for the last four decades -or longer- and I think that the feeling there could finally just be a substantial population who "just can't take it any longer."

I'll remind you that most americans think that Israel is such a buch of tents and camels roaming in the desert (unlike the truth - just your average modern western country. Also, we have more cool intelligence technology than the US =P)
As for "the entire middle east has been on fire for the last four decades", if this was truly the reason, than because of exactly the same reason Israel should have wiped out all of the arab nations around, long ago. Its just an excuse for blood-thirsty people to "go wild".

[PDF]

Agrajag said:

Your post is bordering on open call to murder, it seems out of place here. It looks like bloodthirst is a human vice quite shared everywhere.
On the subject, saying that the turmoil in the ME dates back from Israel creation is no anti-israeli propaganda, but just plain fact.
Note that the other possibility would have been for the Arabs to wipe out Israelis, a more "mathematically logical" situation considering the respective numbers ... they tried, but couldn't, thanks mostly to the USA who funded Israeli army.

[Cainehill]

PDF said:

Your post is bordering on open call to murder, it seems out of place here. It looks like bloodthirst is a human vice quite shared everywhere.

Edit: Incidentally PDF - your quotes are screwed up, as it wasn't fate who posted what you quoted.

Technically, the middle east has been on fire since the 8th or 9th century, when the muslim faith splintered over the issue of who should lead after Mohammed's death. The Sunnis and the Shiites have been killing one another since then, which was the main reason the European crusades were "successful" for a period of time - they could play the Sunni dynasties against the Shiite ones and vice versa.

Then, in 1917, Britain's Balfour Declaration proposed a Jewish state in "Palestine", and Britain proceeded to take control of the Middle East, carving it up into unnatural countries of its own design, (possibly in order to maximize turmoil for its own benefit), and hell on earth continued in "the promised land".

On the subject, saying that the turmoil in the ME dates back from Israel creation is no anti-israeli propaganda, but just plain fact.

True - it isn't anti-israeli propaganda, but it does ignore some 10 centuries of strife in the reason, broken by a few periods of relative peace such as during the reign of the Ottoman empire. But certainly - bloodthirst is a universal human trait, brought to the surface by : hunger, poverty, lack of education, and rulers / people who would rather blame someone else for their problems rather than take the responsibility for solving them themselves. Not just the mideast (which has some notable exceptions such as Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain) but south and central america, africa, and the USA's republican party.

[Gandalf Parker]

People.. lets try to keep the thread in the half-hearted connection to the game please. Otherwise the thread itself could be endangered.

Hmmm as much as I play Pangaea I didnt think they kicked tail on Ulm. No I definately did not wish to paint the picture that BinLaden could win. Only that he could be a long running PitA without a chance of actually winning. The Caelum comparison I could go for.

But also maybe Man. I always thought of Mans strongpoints as being built around a paratrooper design. Obviously his mages and gems are meant to make heavy early use of both Call of the Wild and Call of the Wind. Stealth scout the location. Possibly move in some stealth rangers to be ready. Drop troops on the location for a surprise attack behind frontlines. Setup shop and hold it. All without creating province-to-province supply lines that the enemy can follow back.

Altho then the comparison might lag since, again, Im not sure if man vs pangaea paints quite the overwhelming unbalance that should be shown. I guess thats one of the "failings" of the game that you cant really paint such a picture of imbalance. The closest would maybe be Ermor (and Im not QUITE ready yet to paint USA as Ermor. Not quite yet)

Maybe we could do it with alliances? Man, Ulm, Arcos?

Gandalf Parker

[Agrajag]

PDF said:

Your post is bordering on open call to murder, it seems out of place here. It looks like bloodthirst is a human vice quite shared everywhere.

WHAT?!
Its exactly the other way around!
What I said was that that reason is no reason to riot or kill.
It is however used as an excuse by some people.
Atleast, I can't see any sane person doing what they did because of why they supposedly did it. (And therefore, I conclude its just an excuse, and their reasons are different.)

On the subject, saying that the turmoil in the ME dates back from Israel creation is no anti-israeli propaganda, but just plain fact.

The same goes for saying it dates back to the conquer of Israel by the Roman Empire.
I'd also like to act a bit juvenile and say "They started it", after all, it was the arab nations that attacked Israel and started The War of Independance.

Note that the other possibility would have been for the Arabs to wipe out Israelis, a more "mathematically logical" situation considering the respective numbers ... they tried, but couldn't, thanks mostly to the USA who funded Israeli army.

I wouldn't give the USA all of the credit. It was the courage and strength of Israeli (well... Jewish) soldiers that helped win the war.

You could say Caelum gave us lots of gems, but our mages were the ones to cast all the cool spells =P

[Oversway]

Start clamhoarding!

[PDF]

Agrajag,
I apologize, not only I misunderstood you, but my reply wasn't even properly quoted...

[Fate]

I am sorry if I brought this thread into too political a setting. I said "around four decades ago" because I am often wrong, and with subjects like this I don't want to offend.

Anyway, in connection with Dominions. Don't you think that there must be alot of gems in the mid-east (oil)? And therefore they should be some magic nation... I am not very familiar with many of the nations, so someone could supply one. Pangaea would make the most sense, I guess.

[Gandalf Parker]

It would frighten me to make one of them a magic nation. Such as.. if Iran were to be considered as Arcos then their "we arent involved yet so just leave us alone while we research some things" takes on a very scarey feel.

[KissBlade]

Cainehill said:

Edit: Incidentally PDF - your quotes are screwed up, as it wasn't fate who posted what you quoted.

Technically, the middle east has been on fire since the 8th or 9th century, when the muslim faith splintered over the issue of who should lead after Mohammed's death. The Sunnis and the Shiites have been killing one another since then, which was the main reason the European crusades were "successful" for a period of time - they could play the Sunni dynasties against the Shiite ones and vice versa.

Then, in 1917, Britain's Balfour Declaration proposed a Jewish state in "Palestine", and Britain proceeded to take control of the Middle East, carving it up into unnatural countries of its own design, (possibly in order to maximize turmoil for its own benefit), and hell on earth continued in "the promised land".

True - it isn't anti-israeli propaganda, but it does ignore some 10 centuries of strife in the reason, broken by a few periods of relative peace such as during the reign of the Ottoman empire. But certainly - bloodthirst is a universal human trait, brought to the surface by : hunger, poverty, lack of education, and rulers / people who would rather blame someone else for their problems rather than take the responsibility for solving them themselves. Not just the mideast (which has some notable exceptions such as Qatar, UAE, and Bahrain) but south and central america, africa, and the USA's republican party.

Sadly most Westerners don't recognize the bit of politics the British played there in carving up the Middle East and putting Israel smack dab there. Especially since at that time Britain was allowing "independance" in all their colonies at the time so in future, they can simply just say, "SEE? We went away and now there's chaos everywhere".