Elemental King/Queen summoning limits?

[Boron]

Yeah and air gives you the airqueens .
Both magic schools have though the problem that they don't work against SCs and probably later in the game the mages will be equipped with an air/fire resistence item too .

Especially the bloodnations have an edge here in midgame . If they face Airnations they can use a few storm demons and if they face Firenations they can use devils .

My problem is that i still haven't enough practical experience .

But i think killing SCs supported with some troops is almost impossible via battlemagic . If they are alone charm/soul slay etc. should work but if they have a bit support i think it is a real problem .

[Peter Ebbesen]

Esben Mose Hansen said:


I vote for a chance for the summon to succeed... sortof like wish, summoning the Ice Devil from another player. Why else is it called Summon?

/me ducks and rolls under a handy table.

Seconded. It would be immensely frustrating to lose a high level unique that way but on the other hand the satisfaction of stealing an opponent's carefully acquired HLU would compensate.

How about an already summoned HLU would get a MR roll to avoid being summoned away. Would that work?

[Chazar]

Cainehill said:
I fail to see why artifacts (unique items) are greyed out from the forging list, while summoned uniques are not.

Hmm, why is a unique item unique after all? I guess the unique items are so hard to forge, that the mage really needs a lucky day to forge it at all. It similar to drawing Pictures: You can never redraw a picture as good as before (at least for an unskilled painter like me this is true).

So I am okay that uniques are greyed out. One has heard a rumour that this thing was created by a genious and is so struck with awe that one cannot recreate it...

But that explanation aside: I would propose a general percentage chance for the success of Unique Items Creation as well as Unique Summons, so that a unique item cannot be created instantly. But in that case, a good percentage of the gems cost should be returned and not wasted...

[Cainehill]

Chazar said:

So I am okay that uniques are greyed out. One has heard a rumour that this thing was created by a genious and is so struck with awe that one cannot recreate it...

But that explanation aside: I would propose a general percentage chance for the success of Unique Items Creation as well as Unique Summons, so that a unique item cannot be created instantly. But in that case, a good percentage of the gems cost should be returned and not wasted...

General percentage chance? 100%, unless the item has already exists, in which case it's greyed out and not available for creation. Unique summons - 100%, unless already summoned, in which case 0%.

And of course, if someone is forging the same unique item / summoning the same Last unique summons in the same turn, it's a crap shoot. In theory, if two of you are doing it, 50% chance. If 3, 33%.

[Taqwus]

Random thought --

Just because you summoned it, does not have to mean that it's changed loyalties. Aieeeeeeee!

[Gandalf Parker]

Taqwus said:
Random thought --
Just because you summoned it, does not have to mean that it's changed loyalties. Aieeeeeeee!

Actually in the first game Illwinter put out (Conquest of Ellysium) they are seperate actions. Your summoning request has a variety of possible creatures it brings you, and there is a seperate chance for whether you can successfuly "bind" it. Both settings are purchaseable. You can increse the cost in order to get a greater rane of creatures, and you can increase the cost to get a safer chance of binding.

I found it alot of fun that way but I can see that it probably puts in abit too much random unfairness for a multiplayer game (CoE is single player)

[Zen]

Artifacts are fine as they are. There is no reason that anyone should lose an artifact if they have created it (outside of the good ol' fashioned, kill'm and take it method).

As far as suggestions go:

Unique summons on the other hand could have a chance of loyalty switching (or possible going BREZERK!) if they are summoned.

Something simple yet might add another dynamic could be 25 base chance modfied +/- 5% on the difference in main path of casting unit.

Thus an Ice Devil summoned by a 3 Blood Caster first, but if summoned by a 6 Blood Caster later would have a 40% chance of deserting their original summoner and heading to join more powerful blood mage.

Or a 6 Blood Caster casts it first, and a 4 Blood Caster tries to steal him away, he'd only have a 15% chance of taking away the ID.

This could work well for the Royalty and the Blood Summons. Then of course a 10% chance from the chance of Loyalty could cause the Devil/Elemental Royalty to "GO BREZERK" (4% chance with 40% and 1.5% with 15)

[Cohen]

I believe the actual system works just fine.

Otherwise this could be scrap the Research Priorities / Rush for uniques and this could cost much more to the victim than the 2nd summoner.

If your plan is going to use your X Elemental Ruler, with full equipment, and it disappears (even if there're little chances, but it's usually 1/4) you're losing a powerful unit, a lot of gems for equipment and probably your enemy has it.
Even this could bring to a summon-countersummon til the shortage of gems waves smiling to a player, making not so usable a unit that appears one turn, and could disappear another one.
It could be a sort of Djinn ... who usually equip the Djin if not with low cost trinkets? But Djinn is very powerful, could both trapeze and teleport iirc and has many paths in magic.

[Zen]

Possibly. Why should you be guarenteed to have your Elemental Lord even if another summons is cast? I don't see the exact logic of why.

If the new Elemental came without equipment it would be fine. Even if the % was lowered by an additional 10 (15% chance) it would make it less of a "Sure thing". Though considering the cost of a Unique, I don't think 25 is unreasonable.

And I'm the one who usually rushes for uniques and gets and holds them and have them wait for equipment for exactly the reasoning that they can't be taken and forces wasted gems.

[Cohen]

I'd prefer to see the spell reverted to a Summon something lesser if the big uniques are ended.

Like if both Earth king are taken and a third guy cast it, it appears a non unique Elemental Earth Lord that could have lower stats and E3 oe E2 magic, probably not worthing 50 gems but at least you don't waste.

Well personally I'd like to see the unique number incresead a lot.