Quote:
tesco samoa said:
1- to me a terrorist is a poor man fighting back how ever they can.
2- I do not understand how people cannot understand why the middle east is very pissed off about what has happened to them over the Last few hundred years.
3- The Last few years has been business as usual.
4- Indirectely we are involved. We vote the government in power who carries through with the policy.
5- And we are as much an innocent bystander as a person in Iraq .
6- I do not know what blinds us. But it has to end.
7- This war will have chapeters on our soil.
8- So do not be shocked when it does happen again.
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I disagree in a number of levels.
1- Does it include massacring civilians? How about suicide bombing an school bus, or an school for that matter?
Ghandi didn't do any of the above, and got the British out.
So the methods do count.
2- What have happened to them?
In the 7th century the Arabs spilled all over the middle east. They forced to convert entire etnic Groups, and even today there are Languages that are forbiden from the Arab schools and media, like the Tuareg dialects in Argelia. The Arabs waged and still wage a cultural asimilation war on the etnic Groups that fell under their boots. You can see this more clearly in Sudan. Yet very little of these makes the news.
3- I agree.
4- Yes, and does that justify an attack on civilians? How about nuking Mecca because of the support that the Saudis give to Al Qaeda and company? It cuts both ways.
5- ?
6- I agree. Its time we realize what a clear and present danger Islam is. We don't have to wait until a nuke goes off in New York. Then it will be too late.
7- I agree. Its almost impossible to keep terrorists away from the continental US. They will get through sooner or later. I mean with a nuke. Their cells are probably already in.
8- War is war. What shock is not the attack, but their intended target, that is, civilians, including women and children.
Yes, it will likely happen again, so I say to strike first before it happens.
Islamic terrorism is a deadly enemy that will not give up or give in, so the only way is to defeat them by using a two prongued attack:
- Destroy their ideology, by taking Mecca and Medina out of the picture. Such a destruction will show them that their god doesn't really exists, since he cannot defend their own holy places, thus demoralizing their followship.
- Support secularism in the Muslim world. Since Islam is not capable of modernizing like other religions did in the 20th century, then Islam have to be eliminated, by making the Muslim world secular, eliminating the power of the religious factions and their hold on education, culture, etc.
You have to realize that Islam will not reform by itself, because any secular or liberal muslim is chased out of his country or killed. Then they try to show us what they call "moderate muslims", which are nothing more than a couple guys they keep for western media consumption, but if you look into their ideas you see that they are more radicals than any religious fundy in the West.
Basicly, to be moderate in Islam you can't be muslim. Thus the conclusion is that there are Arab Moderates (seculars), but not Muslim Moderates (religious).
Arab and Muslim are not interchangeable terms.
So the problem is with Islam the religion, not with the etnic Groups that happen to be Muslim. You take away their religion, re-program then eliminating all those religious schools and instituing secular education like in the West, and a couple generations the so-called "clash of civilizations" will be a thing of the past.
Notice that using the term "clash of civilizations" equals recognizing Islam as an integral part of their civilization, which it is today, but it doesn't have to be tomorrow. Int he end, a Muslim from Saudi Arabia have as much in commun with a Muslim from Indonesia as a Christian from France have with a Christian from Taiwan (I.e. very little besides religion)
But they will always try to make us believe that they are an integral unity. Don't swallow that.
Then we come to the nasties part of Islam. They always say that the West discriminate them. But what they don't tell you, its how racist they are even between themselves. Despite the fact the Islam as a religion speaks against discrimination, racial discrimination its an integral part of their culture. This shouldn't surprise us, since it was the same way in the West, with Christianism speaking against discrimination, but slavery surviving all the way to the late 19th century, and racial discrimination being official until the 1960's.
In the Muslim world, the Arabs are the uber etnic group, they discriminate others Muslims, not to mention non-muslims. Within the Arabs, the Gulf Arabs are to top dogs. They believe that their god have blessed them with oil because of their rightiouness, and so they feel superiors. Then come the Irakis, Jordans, Syrians, and Egytians, in that order. Then a big jump down, and come the other North African Arabs. Another empty slot, and come the Sudanese. The Palestians are way below. Most Arabs dislike them, and only use them to fight Israel. The Iranis are not Arabs, and are not Sunnis, but they are not too far down in their "scale". The Yemenites are a Groups that I have yet to find out where they fit in the Arab picture. The Yemenites themselves think that they are the "true" Arabs, because the speak a form of Arabic closer to the the one used to write the Koran, and appearenly for this reason all the Gulf Arabs hate them, but I'm not quite sure whether they hate them because they think that the Yemenites are right, or because they think that the Yemenites are lower in the "Arab scale" and are no more than a bunch of arrogant pricks.
Anyway, I'll let you know when I find out.
Re: OT: Civil Liberities During Crisis
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