VQ Counters - NO Debates

[Endoperez]

Just Man's Cross: magical crossbow (= negates etherealness) giving undead three times the normal crossbow damage. Can be put to "Fire Fliers". You do need some commanders with good aim, though, but scouts aren't too bad I think.
I haven't tested it, but IIRC it was used to counter Ice Devils in Dominions 1 where they were unlimited in number.

[Gandalf Parker]

This conversation is going well. To get the devs attention it is best to give specific examples and avoid declaring something completely broke.

As for me, Im not the type to meet a strong opponent head-on. There will always be some great god Version, but I dont look for another god to counter it. Actually there are alot of very nasty opponents in this game (try giving the AI a King of the World Doom Horror). The name of the game is dominions and that would be my strategy in this case. Avoid the one-man-army by creating many small armys. Strike by surprise in far corners and build from those spots. If the MegaKiller goes there then be ready to do the same in 2 or 3 other spots on the map. Lots of temples and cheap castles.

Some of my favorite nations would do this well. I would think Marignon would have already been considered for the same reasons they often come up in resonse to Ermor. Priests and Fire. Caelum could do damage with fast flying sneak priests.

Man and Pangaea would seem automatic also. Sneak and cheap (1/2 cost) temples. I would defeintely use magic crossbows. Knock her magic out fast.

[ May 05, 2004, 13:35: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Saxon]

Does Smite or Smite Demon, coming from powerful priests, cut through her defenses? Sorry, I have been away and have not followed the entire debate. Similarly, if she is undead, why can’t a swarm of priests take her down? Does her drain life really counter the effects of 20 priests banishing at once? Throw in some eyes of accuracy to lift the effects.

I ran a search on vq smite and vampire queen smite and got nothing, sorry if I am going over already covered ground.

Throw in some flying units to disturb her from the first turn, as well as a second wave of them who were on hold and attack. They may not kill her, but they will keep her busy and unbuffed for perhaps four turns. Having the second wave means even fairly weak units would be helpful. Also, you can buff your flying mage/crusher for two or three turns and then have them arrive to wreak havoc.

Have some crossbows up front, they should get at least two shots this way while the weak flying units annoy her. Flaming arrows could boost this. Similarly, spells like dust to dust may get through the MR if you get enough tries.

If the banishment is hitting her during this period where she is wrestling with annoying flying units, it might be a cheap and low level solution. It also works well with the dominion attacks others have mentioned. If you want to preach her out, you need lots of priests. Concentrate them at the right place and you can get her, as well as leaving a trail of provinces with friendly dominion.

Sure, it may sound like a lot of fairly weak things, but if you can stop the buffing and hit her with a number of things, she is going to have a bad day.

Also, what is the spell that summons a hoard of undead archers that fire flaming arrows? They seem suited to this task.

[PhilD]

Not an expert by any means, but Staff of Storms should keep the VQ walking all across the battlefield. If you have any kind of long-range, high-precision spells, you might get her before she comes through the (preferably undead) fodder around your mages.

The Staff of Storms is also a pretty good item by itself, so it's not like it's a wasted investment.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Tuna-Fish:
Dust to dust, 22 armour negating damage with no mr roll. Hit twice and it's over. Simple?

It's nice in theory, but doesn't work in practice. Your mages refuse to cast dust to dust when there are friendly undead in the area, and are much more likely to animate dead if there aren't.

[Graeme Dice]

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Another way is to use lots of lifeless summons (or units if you can buy them) that she can't drain. After VQ casts buffs, she will have pretty high fatigue - use that to swarm her with lifeless army. Of course, this is not doable at the very start.

It's very unlikely that longdead will be able to do enough damage to her to get through a protection of 20-30, especially if she has a fireshield.

[Gandalf Parker]

Im just wondering but has anyone run a --superhost game looping thru the turns to see if the VQ actually wins the game? It would provide some unbiased hard numbers. Probably small fast games are covered but do we have an idea about larger long-running games with all the races in it?

[ May 05, 2004, 15:50: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[archaeolept]

Originally posted by Graeme Dice:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Daynarr:
Another way is to use lots of lifeless summons (or units if you can buy them) that she can't drain. After VQ casts buffs, she will have pretty high fatigue - use that to swarm her with lifeless army. Of course, this is not doable at the very start.

It's very unlikely that longdead will be able to do enough damage to her to get through a protection of 20-30, especially if she has a fireshield.

---

yeah, and you're lucky if that's all she has. Armor of 30+ would be standard in the full strat by the midgame. defense the same, + fireshield, and, of course, the 5+ mirror images and mistform. I really doubt that masses of fodder undead could do anything to her, though I may be wrong. She is flying, and is likely attacking the rear as well...

as far as counters, other than trying to mimick the VQ formula itself, I take Marignon w/ a Baphomet F9 S9 blessing, and create hordes of flaming fate-twisted flagellants. that works, but is not exactly generally applicable.

[ May 05, 2004, 16:10: Message edited by: archaeolept ]

[Norfleet]

Originally posted by PhilD:
Not an expert by any means, but Staff of Storms should keep the VQ walking all across the battlefield. If you have any kind of long-range, high-precision spells, you might get her before she comes through the (preferably undead) fodder around your mages.

Preventing the VQ from flying can actually be counterproductive, since then it will not immediately outrun its fodder and present itself as a target for your mages. I'm not saying you should NEVER ground it, but be aware that doing so CAN be counterproductive.

[PvK]

Other ideas:

Blindness

Paralysis

Black Bow of Betulf

the missile weapon that kills in one shot

capturing her home castle

unliving summons

outnumbering with own summoned Vampire Lords

Liches and Bog Mummies can do similar things, perhaps better when they have high built-in protection, which can be harder to counter than etherealness

magic weapons (bypass ethereal)

Death summons (several relatively cheap and skilled warriors available with magic weapons included and no life for VQ to drain)