TG contest question - Page 3

alasyr · #21 February 9th, 2001, 02:28 AM

But what would stop someone from creating a small galaxy with 10 planets for each player (all warps connected and other thing from rules), saving that map and start a new game using required config but using a map previosly created.I mean how can you check is map used been created especialy for that game or loaded, it's small, it has all warp points connected, so in every way conditions are forfilled.

Puke · #22 February 9th, 2001, 08:42 AM

I dont think this is the right quad type for the contest, but the principal is the same, and this was my first try. doing this should be Banned in the rules. there is nothing to stop someone from doing it with even more planets than this, and whats more, there is nothing to stop someone from value-improving all the planets to 200%, and building SWs around each star, and convert all asteroids to planets, and convert all atmospheres before saving the map.

I dont know how you could really enforce a rule against doing this though, since it would be just as easy to subtily manipulate a map, just by converting a handfull of atmospheres or improving a handfull of planets, you could not really tell.

there is the honor system that people may use, but you can only vouch for your own convictions. you could make one standard map for all entrants to use, but then everyone would play a race perfectly suited to that map and it would not be much of a contest.

The best thing i can come up with is this: every contest applicant sends in their race file, and the contest admin sends back a gamefile made under the proper conditions that the applicant must play. this will allow random quadrants, and eliminate this abuse. to save the admins work, maybe you could generate the map by using the command line Version of the game, i dont know if that is possible. or you could have a '1-game-per-week-per-person' rule.

Tomgs · #23 February 9th, 2001, 10:40 AM

Have you tried to play for score for 150 turns? It takes a long time to get a good score. Somehow I don't think too many people who like to cheat or take shortcuts will finish a game like this. The turns can take over an hour apiece to do at certain points of the game. Yes its posible that people will cheat and take shortcuts but IMO the amount of money is so low and the time invested is so high that its not worth it to cheat. If someone does and dosen't get caught Oh well. I entered this contest to see a different portion of the game and did I ever. You see the game in a completely different light when you play for score. Most of the game is solo because the AI gets no bonus and its a small quadrant so its all colonized fairly fast too.

Yes your right there are many ways to cheat in this game because its so modifiable. And many of those ways are very hard to detect unless you really overdo it. I know they will watch for flagrent cheats and somehow I don't think too many people will succeed in the micromanagement this type of game requires if they like to take shortcuts.

Really come on now This is my 5th game and all but one of them had to be restarted because of new cheats or shortcommings in the game that were being learned as time went on. Enough is enough I will not start another game so if the rules change again I will not be among the entrants. I have played three of the games past 100 turns now that is a bit much. Yes there are hundreds of cheats still possible out there that haven't been mentioned yet do we have to start a new game every time someone comes up with another possible cheat?

[This message has been edited by Tomgs (edited 09 February 2001).]

alasyr · #24 February 9th, 2001, 12:58 PM

Well, map created with 10 HW is very very detactable because it produces number of systems with 7-8 green big worlds out of 15-20 planents total in system.

alasyr · #25 February 9th, 2001, 03:39 PM

Has anyone considered building remote minning starbases (the bigest ones, 24 miners) on tiny worlds after maximazing their values and timing the build so it would finishes at turn 149, then abandoning the colony.I think one can get at 5000kt of resources more then using 4 monolith III and one Robotic Factory on that world (system robotic factory bonus included for monoliths).

Drake · #26 February 9th, 2001, 04:16 PM

I took a look at it earlier this week and determined it wasn't cost effective for my race. Even a tiny world with (5 Monoliths IIIs) * (the pop bonus of 5% + 20% race bonus + 20% happiness) * 1.3 (robotoid facility) * 1.3 (system robotoid) comes out to be more than the remote mining value.

Mainly it's because the remote mining doesn't get a single one of the bonuses at all, from what my testing showed me. Not even at the system level.

You don't even need to time the build for turn 149, just keep it in place and abandon the planet on turn 150. It's also the only way I can think of where your score could go up during a turn, as opposed to between turns.

Good thinking btw, that's the sort of thing you need to be trying out when in a contest like this.

-Drake

[This message has been edited by Drake (edited 09 February 2001).]

geoschmo · #27 February 9th, 2001, 06:18 PM

Very creative thinking Alasyr. Even if Drake is correct and it doesn't work out, that's the way to push the envelope.

I think the next patch is going to make that more difficult to do though. According to ColdSteel one of the fixes will be to not allow abandoning planets above a certain pop threshold. I guess you could have two starbases, one with miners and one with cargo storage for the pop, but it seems like a lot of work.

Drake, I confirmed what you said about the +5% production bonus for culture not working. Has that been sent to MM?

Drake · #28 February 9th, 2001, 06:24 PM

Nope, been procrastinating. I'll go ahead and do that now.

-Drake

Nyx · #29 February 9th, 2001, 11:16 PM

quote:
Thanks for the link and the info but they want too much personal information on me to join. Good luck to all those that play in it.

I agree with you 100% on this one. I've been telling the company not to ask for anything but a confirmable e-mail account and a desired username, but they say, "Well everyone else asks for all this stuff and it gives us valuable demographic data" and then they wonder why more people aren't willing to sign up. Not much that I can do about that, sorry.

------------------
Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.

geoschmo · #30 February 10th, 2001, 02:05 AM

Tomgs, I wouldn't be too concerned about it. If they decide to ban the kind of map manip that Puke is talking about, it won't affect your games since you aren't doing that.

I agree with your point abuot the stakes being so low and the game taking so long that it is unlikely anyone would attempt it anyway.

Puke, Nyx has stated that he will be goiing over every game personnaly. I am sure there is somthing in the fine print legal mumbo jumbo aboout reserving the right to refuse any submission not deemed to be fair, blah, blah, blah.

I hope you aren't letting the possibility that someone might try it keep you from getting into the contest and having fun with it.

Yes, the kind of thing you are talking about could be done. But IMHO, if it were done to the point where it made a diff, then it would be obvious. And if it were done subtly, where it was not detectable, then it wouldn't make that much difference.

But thank you for pointing it out. Don't confuse our lack of concern with a lack of caring. I think some of us who have been in this thing from the begining are just getting a little burnt out at all the restarts.