Blood?

[Endoperez]

I had this strange idea few days ago, that doesn't leave me alone. If Maenads gather around Panii, why Pandemoniacs don't get free troops? I know there is a lot of differences, but they could do something with their corrupted magics...

And then the thought caught me: instead of getting maenads, they get blood slaves! Of course, one per turn would be maximum, or maybe too much. Maybe they just should have increased change of finding slaves when hunting, or when hunting in a province with Panii/maenads, but something would be better than nothing. You get blood slaves by money even without this, but with this you are not forced to use scouts (this might be too god if you used them nonetheless)... I have no idea what this would do for balance. And the battle spells should be looked at too, as Pandemoniacs could cast them more often.

Please tell me, is this any good? And what do you think about the work needed to implement it? Ice Devils got free gems in Dom1, so that shouldn't be too hard... But what about the other things?

[apoger]

>I'll have to give scout hunting a try. It seems very odd/not right

It's entirely possible that it's more effective than IW would really want. That's one of the reasons I have brought it up.


>Would two spine devils for twice the price or so really be a problem?

I'm totally on board for making Versions of the spells that summon more than one demon at a time. Frankly I'd like to see this for Vine Men/Ogres and Trolls(no kings) as well.


>I found that when using blood mages for blood hunting I had to delay the hunt a significant while or risk strangling early speed.

Absolutely. Early expansion must be done in order to fuel the blood ramp-up later. Same goes for other magics as well. Now that the elemental summons are weakened (compared to Dom1) there is no very early game magic to rush for. This changes the magic dynamic a lot. Better to expand first, then power down on magic work once things are a bit more secure.


>I find the early speed of development with Abysia to be reasonably good but only if I focus everything on developing - ie cash in fire gems, buy a Anathement Dragon for your main army, get another castle in a resource rich spot (this is really important if you don't get a nice starting spot) and churn out HI which fry the enemy and are virtually immune ot bows.

For Abyisa, I agree that cashing in gems and making at least one more fort is an early priority. At least for my play style.


>I didn't think the old Abysia with the Moloch and Devils from early was overpowered early and if they had just restricted who gets the Molochs and kept the devil producing it would have been so much more fun. The early Devils were fun - heaps of fun.

Agreed. The Moloch got slammed. Loss of devils and a higher cost. It's much weaker than the Dom1 Version. Players asked for *more* gods that had such abilities, instead IW chose to kill the effects. IHMO, a bad choice.


>Paralyse certainly hurts SC based approaches but blood isn't really SC based for Abysia IMO. So far HfH seems to be the main canidate for what blood is about for Abysia and once I have finished slaughtering my way to acension with Pangaea (who rock!) I'll crank up an Abysia race using scouts for blood hunting and focusing on HfH.

When I play Abysia I push for the following magics:

Fire: Incinerate (needs Phoenix Power), Flaming Arrows

Astral: Paralyze, Soul Slay (needs Banner/Light of the northern Star)

Blood: Hordes for Hell

[apoger]

>instead of getting maenads, they get blood slaves!

I wouldn't mind at all if Pandemoniacs attracted a blood slave or two, particularly if it also required turmoil scale.

Good suggestion.

[Gandalf Parker]

Originally posted by apoger:
>instead of getting maenads, they get blood slaves!

I wouldn't mind at all if Pandemoniacs attracted a blood slave or two, particularly if it also required turmoil scale.

Good suggestion.

I think this might require yet another Version though. DIfferent than the no-maenad and the create-vine-things Versions

Also as to the "old gods" I havent checked but if Illwinter held to form they are still around in the monster database, just not used. A new Version would have been made. That means its available for assigning it to yourself or more interestingly to the AI's to use.

For now that would be done with a .map file but soon they will be available as MOD units which would be cool since that effect would be hard to add. MOD means you could use it as a base and change the picture or add other features

[ December 29, 2003, 14:21: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Endoperez:

And then the thought caught me: instead of getting maenads, they get blood slaves!

Great thought. Lured by the hypnotic attraction of the corrupt Pan the beautful lass gave herself up to the trance and before she knew it she was on the Altar in a role quite different to the one she had imagined.

cheers

Keir

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by apoger:
Early expansion must be done in order to fuel the blood ramp-up later. Same goes for other magics as well. Now that the elemental summons are weakened (compared to Dom1) there is no very early game magic to rush for. This changes the magic dynamic a lot. Better to expand first, then power down on magic work once things are a bit more secure.

National spells have become alot more significant. Panic and Terror being two spells I have usd alot in Dom2. Eagle Eyes is my most commen early spell target and a pretender can often knock that off quickly. For Ctis Raise Dead is still something to keep a serious eye. In general I agree that it was Seasonal Spirits that defined early magic use/abuse in Dom1 and in Dom2 there is no comparable must have early. However there are still a range of useful spells to go for and oddities such as Anathament Salamanders with eyes of aiming casting fireball or air mages with lightning bolts or Astral with its various nasty low level battle spells. Its not hard at all to knock off a moderate level of magic if you are not using your pretender as a SC early and get a useful dish of magic to play with early in the non-blood paths. Sometimes it makes a big difference but mostly its the national spells that I have made a big difference with early.

Cheers

Keir

[Saber Cherry]

Blood Solution

Yay! I got it!

Blood empowerment could be cheaper than other empowerments. I've thought a Dousing Rod should be usable by any mage, not just blood mages. But if not... then since mortals are much more tuned to raw blood energy than other forms of magical energy, why not make blood empowerment much cheaper? Like... say... half price, or a straight 15 slave reduction for every level, or maybe 30 slaves instead of 50 slaves for level-1 blood.

I've also found it nearly impossible to start a blood program soon enough to have it affect the game, even with a large investment, which is sad.

Or... to keep the game more thematic... simply giving all blood races a cheap blood mage would solve the problem... which is, of course, that blood is too slow to make a difference except in long games, and that being a "blood nation" does not really help.

-Cherry

[Jasper]

IMHO this isn't a solution, but makes the situation worse. Why should it be easier for everyone to get into blood magic? It's already pretty easy, considering how cost effective blood hunting with scouts is.

It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

[ December 30, 2003, 10:05: Message edited by: Jasper ]

[PhilD]

Originally posted by Jasper:
IMHO this isn't a solution, but makes the situation worse. Why should it be easier for everyone to get into blood magic? It's already pretty easy, considering how cost effective blood hunting with scouts is.

It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

What's the rant about Horde from Hell? I saw it mentioned as being such a strong spell, but from what I've seen so far, Imps are pretty lousy, and it doesn't look like 25 of them will do much damage to even a low defense Province. Is it really worth the 30 slaves?

(Caveat: I'm mostly playing SP, with lowish AIs - if the spell becomes especially useful vs human opponents or higher AI levels, I wouldn't know)

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by Jasper:
It doesn't take much effort to start summoning Ice Devils, which are effective. Hordes from Hell is even easier to get.

This just doesn't fit my experiance Jasper. I find it takes alot of effort and as Saber says the game is generally fundamenally over by the time the goodies start to pour out. Hmm lets see I've pretty much won the game now but my Ice Devils have finally arrived. If I had never bothered I could have won it well back. This is how I'm finding it SP. Still I have to give Alex's scout hunting a good try. Not looking forward to it due to the micro-management.

cheers

Keir