Tuatha Race

[Psitticine]

For those looking for a good source on Celtic mythology, check out James MacKillop's Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, published by Oxford. It's excellent: both highly detailed and carefully researched, and unlike many such books, tries to cover as many viewpoints as possible without breaking down into confusion. If you want to start with a single book, I couldn't recommend a better one.

There's also Peter Berresford Ellis' Dictionary of Irish Mythology, also published by Oxford. It is a bit trimmer and the text is somewhat more accessible. (Ellis is a writer of fiction as well, under another name, and his prose is a bit more flavorful, IMO.) It isn't nearly as expansive, however. Ellis also wrote a Dictionary of Celtic Mythology, but it has some issues due to poor editing after it left his hands. I hate to say it, but I'd recommend avoiding that one.

There are many other good texts, but those two are among my Favorites. They are readily available, inexpensive, unbiased, very knowledgable and well-written.

For those looking for a good bit of authentic Irish myth, you might try Thomas Kinsella's translation of the Tain bo Cuailnge, which is published simply as The Tain by (again) Oxford Books. Kinsella is a noted poet and expert on the language. His translation was done as carefully as possible to maintain the original flavor and feel. It also comes with extensive notes detailing his sources, various comments on the text, interpretations, and so forth. It is also an amazing action-adventure tale. One man versus an army led by a beautiful woman. Try and top that, Hollywood!

For those looking for a good snooze instead, you can try the research paper I once wrote on the Tain. It is a bit longer than the Dom II manual and makes for an excellent sleep-inducer.

[Jasper]

Thanks!

[Raen]

Does Avalon exist in Irish mythology? I was under the impression it was more a Welsh/Arthurian thing.

Of course, I realize IW may have had to amalgamate mythologies a bit...I'm just curious.

[WraithLord]

All this mythology talk is very interesting.
Makes me wish IW would have added a nation based on middle eastern myth .
I know that Arco is supposed to be based on the ancient Asirian empire.
But I really don't get that feeling with that nations units/heroes/gods names and overall feel.
Where is Gilgamesh for example?

Anyway, I would have loved a new nation based on either one of egyptian, hebrew, babilonian or persian myth.
They have some very interesting stories, believes etc.

[Keir Maxwell]

Originally posted by izaqyos:
All this mythology talk is very interesting.
Makes me wish IW would have added a nation based on middle eastern myth .
I know that Arco is supposed to be based on the ancient Assyrian empire.

I think Arco is based on the Greeks. You get Hopilites (Classical Greek) Hypastpists (Macedonian), Elephants (Alexandrian/Successor) and Chariots (Selucid or Geometric Greek). Somewhat eclectic but all in all Greek inspired.

I too would love an early Near East race - I'm a Late Bronze Age/Chariot warfare fiend. My first priority in hasselling Illwinter for more features in this respect is more Chariots for Tien Ch'i Spring and Autumn - might not be Late Bronze age but they are still Chariots.

Cheers

Keir

Cheers

Keir

[Psitticine]

Originally posted by Raen:
Does Avalon exist in Irish mythology? I was under the impression it was more a Welsh/Arthurian thing.

Of course, I realize IW may have had to amalgamate mythologies a bit...I'm just curious.

I've read the name means "Isle of the Apples" and was originally derived from Gaelic, but it must have altered quite a bit on the trip. I can't find anything even vaguely supporting that etymology.

So, as far as I know, it is pretty much Arthurian. That cycle is quite distinct from the Celtic, as I'm sure you know, but there is enough overlap (such as Excalibur, whose name and nature is derived from Fergus mac Roich's sword Caladbolg) to justify unifying them in a framework such as the game.

For those who don't know the story, King Arthur was carried off to the Isle of Avalon, a place very much like the Celtic "Otherworld", after being mortally wounded. Like many other heroes, including Fionn mac Cumhail, he is said to be sleeping until the hour of his people's greatest need. (The "sleeping hero" is a very popular motiff in folk legend.)

[Psitticine]

Just an addendum for those who might be curious:

I was browsing aimlessly through a book and came across a reference to Avalon and its "roots".

Emain Ablach (Ablach = "having apple trees") is the name of an island that is home to Manannan mac Lir, one of the most powerful of the Tuatha de Danaan/Sidhe. In the Imram Brain, one of the old sagas, the hero, Bran, quests to find the paradiscial isle (supposedly located somewhere off the coast of Scotland) after being presented a silver limb from one of the isle's apple trees by a mysterious and beautiful woman. The source I read this in (Mackillop's Dictionary of Celtic Mythology) describes Emain Ablach as "one of several Celtic contributions to the Arthurian concept of Avalon."

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
One of the minor thematic things that's always bothered me about Dominions is that while it seems to get things right...

Not always. Hastati and Principes disappeared after Gaius Marius reformed the Roman army, yet they come equipped with segmented loricae which started to be widely used 2 centuries later.

[Jasper]

Originally posted by Nagot Gick Fel:

quote:

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Originally posted by Jasper:
One of the minor thematic things that's always bothered me about Dominions is that while it seems to get things right...

Not always. Hastati and Principes disappeared after Gaius Marius reformed the Roman army, yet they come equipped with segmented loricae which started to be widely used 2 centuries later.

---

You picked a particularily bad place to put your elipsis! This is much better:

"One of the minor thematic things that's always bothered me about Dominions is that while it seems to get things right with the _Tuatha_ and _Firbolg_..."

Note the distinct lack of reference to Rome... Besides, minor details like you mention are IMHO well within the scope of "designers license", especially considering the real Roman Army didn't have Serpent Cataphracts or Spectral Legionaires. More bothersome to me is how Triari are handled.

[Nagot Gick Fel]

Originally posted by Jasper:
Besides, minor details like you mention are IMHO well within the scope of "designers license", especially considering the real Roman Army didn't have Serpent Cataphracts or Spectral Legionaires.

Sure these are minor details I can live happily with, and so are the Serpent Cataphracts etc. But if you can accept them, what's wrong with the Faery Queens and her "pixies"? You seemed to imply _these_ were out of the scope of designers license.