Is Cyclops worth it as a pretender god?

[Saber Cherry]

What, do Machaka militia all have Ebola, or were you just lucky with your battle afflictions? Militia is good against Jotuns, but not against heavy cavs, archers, or normal infantry... in my experience. And since warriors cost barely more money and negligible resources, and archers are virtually the same cost-wise... I can't imagine making militia. Until my mod comes out and they drop to 4 gold apiece.

Was the disease thing luck, or is that supposed to happen?

[ November 15, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Nerfix]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
Well, I played kind of sillilly.

Yeah rigth...

Not that he needed any improvements... the main problems were fatigue and elemental/poison resistances, but against AI weaknessess aren't as critical.

Yeah(unless you stumble to an indy with that auto-curse shield or a shaman). However, against a human opponent...

[ November 15, 2003, 17:39: Message edited by: Nerfix ]

[Vger]

Saber,

What was your script like for your Cyclops? I see you talking about him casting a couple of spells, attacking for a while and then casting some more on his own. I'm still new to the game and didn't think you could have such flexibility. Especially having your commander attack, then cast spells, then attack some more.

Thanks,
V'ger gone

[Saber Cherry]

The script was at:
(Air Shield), (Personal Regeneration), (Stoneskin), (Mirror Image), attack closest

at first.

Later, it was:
(Summon Earthpower), (Mirror Image), (Mistform), attack closest

Eventually, it became:
(Summon Earthpower), (Mirror Image), (Mistform), (Eagle Eyes), (Blade Wind), cast spells

But you can also do things like this:

(Mistform), (attack one round), (Shock Wave), (attack one round), (Shock Wave), attack closest

Or, you can leave the final orders blank, and leave it to the AI to decided whether to attack or cast. But even if you tell the unit just to cast spells, he can still trample until he uses his AP up, then cast a spell. Specific scripting cannot go past the first 5 rounds, unfortunately - though I'm hoping we get the "Cast Attack Spells", "Cast Support Spells", and "Cast Summon Spells" orders=)

-Cherry

P.S.

I always put my Cyclops at the way back so he could cast all his spells before being attacked, and at least cast Air Shield and Regeneration before arrows started hitting him.

[ November 15, 2003, 18:32: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Altus]

Originally posted by Saber Cherry:
What, do Machaka militia all have Ebola, or were you just lucky with your battle afflictions?...
Was the disease thing luck, or is that supposed to happen?

Hmmmn...it was my first time using Mach, and Jotunheim starting hitting provinces without regular troops but had defenses of 20-23. I was really annoyed with the wimpiness of the defense militia but on the 2nd Jot offensive I noticed every attacker that was hit by a defense militia was diseased. This then occured again in subsequent attacks they made. Since I was new to the Machs, I thought it was an effect to counter the defense militia's ineffectiveness, but judging by your comments apparently not. The overran provinces pretty much did have luck:2 and heat:2-3. So, maybe coupling that with the Jotunheim preference for cold produced the effect. Others would better know why it occured since there are so many Dom vets here. I'll look to see if it occurs in similar situations where my Dominion is lower. Apparently, I drew an incorrect conclusion from what I observed - my bad .

[Saber Cherry]

I imagine that the AI was stupid and took a death scale with Jotunheim (reducing supply). Regardless, Jotuns prefer Cold 2, and fighting in Heat 2 would reduce their supply by 40% (I think)...

I always have supply problems when playing Jotunheim, they use 3 each. And the AI is not nearly as good as a human at avoiding supply problems... and if a units starves 2 turns in a row, it gets diseased. So I assume the diseases came from the AI keeping its armies in low-supply provinces rather than from the Machaka militia. I find it is a very good idea to put high defense in a low-supply province - then the enemy has to commit a large force to take it, and they starve. Well, unless they have a Cyclops or Blade Wind (or both)=)

[ November 15, 2003, 22:55: Message edited by: Saber Cherry ]

[Altus]

It does seem to track that the Jotunheim diseases were contracted due to supply problems between their first and subsequent offensives, rather than to anything occuring during the battles. Thank you for your insights, Saber Cherry.

[PvK]

There are multiple "bionic eye" items which could be good for a cyclops. I haven't tested whether they make a cyclops immune to blindness or not, but usually they cause a "lost an eye" affliction, unless you've already lost an eye. I have used them on commanders who had lost an eye in Dominions I, since it wouldn't do them any more harm. I never saw such a commander suffer the "lost the other eye" affliction, but I wasn't trying...

It'd be interesting if such eyes could cure blindness, but would also have a chance to be destroyed on subsequent eye hits. For all I know, that's how it works...

PvK

[Saber Cherry]

The low-level eye of aiming does not help a blind commander - I know that much. So, don't put one in your Cyclops!

[Chris Byler]

Originally posted by PvK:
There are multiple "bionic eye" items which could be good for a cyclops. I haven't tested whether they make a cyclops immune to blindness or not, but usually they cause a "lost an eye" affliction, unless you've already lost an eye. I have used them on commanders who had lost an eye in Dominions I, since it wouldn't do them any more harm. I never saw such a commander suffer the "lost the other eye" affliction, but I wasn't trying...

I believe it was reported in Dom I that if you put in two magic eyes, you would put out your other eye to do so.

There is no such effect for two magic hearts (can't have more than one chest wound).

It'd be interesting if such eyes could cure blindness, but would also have a chance to be destroyed on subsequent eye hits. For all I know, that's how it works...

PvK

I don't know of any magic eyes that cure blindness - although it would be a big help to a Cyclops.

Can anyone who has the full Version test how magic eyes work for the new Allfather pretender for Vanheim (who, I have heard, starts out missing an eye - but doesn't get any wisdom in exchange, AFAIK. He should at least get a research bonus, higher MR, or something!) - i.e., does the first magic eye go in his empty eye socket, or does he put out his good eye to put it on?


No one has mentioned yet the trick of equipping assassins with magical eyes and sending them against the Cyclops - in Dom I he would often find the magic eye on the assassin's body, put out his own eye, and put the magic eye in its place.

In my opinion, whenever a leader finds an item that curses, horror marks or diseases the bearer, causes an affliction when equipped (eyes and hearts), or can't be removed once equipped, it should be sent to the lab. Perhaps even all salvaged items should be sent to the item treasury (instead of being equipped on the finder) - that would be preferable to the current system.

Otherwise, we'll just see more "assassins" with bane venom charm (or fever fetish, or rod of the leper king), knife of the damned, eye of aiming (if you're going against a Cyclops), and possibly black heart (if it wasn't an assassin to begin with) - in addition to the medallion of vengeance, of course.

I don't mind (much) losing a commander to an assassin with rod of the phoenix, bane blade, or some other powerful item that kills my commander - or even to summoning assassins (skeleton talisman, lifelong protection, empoisoners or other death mages using Raise Skeletons). Or having them permanently weakened by an assassin with a Flesh Eater, Black Bow of Botulf, or now Vision's Foe.

But I do mind having a commander (or prophet, or pretender) crippled by a failed assassination attempt because he imprudently looted the assassin's corpse and put on cursed items. Any non-mindless being should know better than to wear a Bane Venom Charm (unless lifeless or undead), or put out its one eye for an Eye of Aiming.