The future of PBW - a call to arms - Page 3

Cipher7071 · #21 June 8th, 2004, 10:22 PM

Mark is right about one thing: our first goal should be to get permission to examine the code, do a little head-scratching, and see if we can't figure out what's gone wrong with it. At least we should be able to identify which blocks/modules contain the problems. With any luck, the programmer has left a few notes.

A complete rewrite is only necessary where the code is undecipherable. Even in that case, it still sounds as though much of it is going to be reusable.

[ June 08, 2004, 21:27: Message edited by: Cipher7071 ]

Roanon · #22 June 8th, 2004, 11:03 PM

Even if we can get the code and "decipher" it, it may be a wise move to build a new modular system from scratch. The old code might be to clogged up to be maintained properly, and most likely has other design principles.
We should start to agree on a language and database, like PHP/mySQL. Someone start a poll please. Then we could start a thread to define a database structure, and which modules should be done to allow for basic functionality. Nothing else. Then who will give which modules a first shot, and build a new system parallel to the old one without interfering with the old or any repair that might be going on there.
As soon as the code is basically working and has undergone basic testing, we can transfer the data to the new system, at a time when at least one competent programmer with time at hands is available to do Last-minute bugfixes.
This all should be done as soon as possible.

When the old system has been totally replaced, we can start to add extra goodies, nice graphics, and features not needed for basic playing. For this, we can take as much time as we want to discuss what to add and how to do, as the basic modular design should allow to insert additions with little effort. This is not so with the current system, I guess.

tesco samoa · #23 June 9th, 2004, 12:28 AM

Hi.

The current system must be kept up and running before the new system can take over.

This is the reality of the situation.

the other reality is that the system needs to be updated.

This is a task that will happen.

For the current system will be obsolete in a year or two anyways.

So the future of PBW calls for a new system.
IMHO.

As the upcoming lead administrator for the pbw system. I am fully aware that this responsibilty falls upon me to determine if this is the proper path for the pbw community to take. Or if it will be come a time to call it a day.

Currently this topic is being tossed around between GEO and myself.

The other pbw admins are doing everything they can to get the system back up and running.

Soon they box will be traveling to my house.

Then I will be asking geo for his help......

These are the realities of what is going to happen.

More info will follow.

But i want to clear with everyone that I do not want to see PBW die off in 2 or 3 months because the system cannot be fixed.

But it could happen.

As for the development of a new system.

I am going to take the lead on that.

Reason is because I will have the box. And ultimately the responsiblity will fall upon me because of that reason.

I do hope that i can live up to the level that geo set over the Last two years.

And I do thank him ( my wife doesn't) for all the enjoyment that pbw has offered.

Simon

Roanon · #24 June 9th, 2004, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
As for the development of a new system.

I am going to take the lead on that.

Ok, then please start organizing. As I wrote in my message, I think that a basic, functioning system should be developed independent of the status and repair trials on the old system, while it is still running. Soon.

Ed Kolis · #25 June 9th, 2004, 03:01 AM

Sorry about posting this here, but there doesn't seem to be a suggestions thread - I just thought, what with Ruatha's program interfacing with PBW and also loading the PBW site in a Windows form, that suggests that maybe PBW2 should be designed from the ground up as a Web Service - I don't know if the term is unique to the .NET Framework, but what a Web Service is, is basically a set of functionality that can be accessed over the web from any sort of client program - it could be a dynamic website running in a browser, or it could be a Windows application, or a Linux application, or whatever you want.
Thus, to make it concrete, PBW2 might have a "game" class, which would have functions like "add player" and "process turn"; those functions would be what is called by the client. Basically, it's the same as the current system, only with a middle layer in between the user and SE4 to make the PBW functionality easily accessible to a wider range of clients than just the standard web site.
Granted, I've never written a web service before, but as I've mentioned, I have done some programming with ASP.NET, and web services seem to be the next step up, so I should be learning about them soon in school... and from what I hear they're not all that complicated anyway

#26 June 9th, 2004, 10:59 AM

I've just been reading the threads on the PBW emergency server (do a search on "emergency server" to find the relevant stuff). Question for everyone involved, especially Ruatha; is this ready to run should PBW die completely, and could it be a useful starting point for the new project?

Mark

tesco samoa · #27 June 9th, 2004, 03:08 PM

Ok the initial emails are going out now to a few people to talk about this.

Do not be alarmed if you do not receive an email and expressed interest in the development.

You will be called upon later when the initial scope of this project has been fully defined.

farstryder · #28 June 9th, 2004, 04:23 PM

While my programming skills aren't much to speak of, I'm quite decent at writing. If it would be necessary (or even merely desirable) to write up text for various aspects of the interface, I would be most pleased to help.

Its not much, but its what I have to offer for now.

As far as what language, in my experience, I've liked PHP best of any of the others I've seen. Not that I know much about it, but that's what I'd vote for.

Gandalf Parker · #29 June 9th, 2004, 05:16 PM

I wish I knew more about how SEIV does things before I posted this so pardon me. But I see 2 "paths" here that are often used in writing something like this.

A) programming from the top down. The menu choices are written, the sub-routines ironed out, often results in one huge program in one specific language, using the system to answer a need is the Last consideration

B) designed from bottom up, system answers are put in place first, then routines to access them, finally they are put together under menus

Both have their pros and cons. A big part of it is that "A" is easier maintained by programmers, and "B" is easier maintained by SysAdmins. Also "A" is easier for fansites to setup, and "B" has advantages on a dedicated server.

Im afraid that if I were to flow-chart/psuedo-code a project like this it would be in "B" mode due to my background (and even then I would be mostly in linux mode asking for help from the Windows admins here)

It seems as though the PBW we have now is "A" mode. Which is fine but the pros and cons of it is something we are running into now. Id love to see it fixed up and back running. But I have more interest in seeing a "B" mode done than in seeing a different "A" mode.

This post may be way out of line and maybe I should start a different thread to explain a "B" mode layout so people can tell me that SEIV wont work that way?

[ June 09, 2004, 16:18: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

Ragnarok · #30 June 9th, 2004, 05:32 PM

If it is designed from the ground up using PHP and MySQL I can help out a little. I use those two combined for our website at work. While I cannot play a large part in the work due to no time it seems, perhaps when/if development does start I can take a look at the code and offer suggestions or help out with some small problems. It is not much but best I can do.