OT - Tribute to a hero

[Alpha Kodiak]

Originally posted by tesco samoa:
wow AK. This has really hit home with you.

I raised a glass tonight for you and your pain over Mr. Tillman.

Take Care

Simon

Thanks Tesco. I followed Tillman's career at Arizona State University, then when he was with the Arizona Cardinals. He was a player that excelled when everyone thought he couldn't because of his size and speed. I enjoyed watching him because of his heart and attitude. When he gave up his career to join the army, it really impressed me. There are so many athletes (and other people, for that matter) who are caught up in themselves, and he provided a marked contrast to that. I guess that since I had been a fan of his as a football player it just seems almost like I know him a little bit. Since his story was probably not so well known outside of Arizona, I wanted to make sure that people understood just what sort of a man he was.

As for the pain, it will pass quickly for me. It is just a reminder to me of what a lot of very brave individuals are doing for me all of the time. Those that will have to deal with it for real are his wife, parents, brothers and friends. My thoughts and prayers are with them, as well as the families and friends of the others who are dying in places far from home.

[Grandpa Kim]

Originally posted by Atrocities:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ragnarok-X:
just wondering, why EXACTLY do you consider this man a "hero" ?

I for one define "hero" by other words/abilities/things

I guess if we have to explain it to you, then it is most likely you may not understand. For that I am truly sorry.

---

Ragnarok-X, I guess you and I are just not smart enough to understand... or perhaps our standards are higher.

These days a person dies from cancer and is a hero, a crossing guard gets run over and is a hero, a woman is attacked and lies dying a ditch for a week and is a hero. I'm sorry, these people had no choice so how could they be heroic?

Mr. Tillman was under orders, on patrol, he was merely doing his job. That does not make him a hero. Something else I'm unaware of may make him a hero, but not simply doing his job and having the misfortune to be killed in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I believe Mr. Tillman is a fine example, an outstanding role model for anyone in this sorry world. There are countless others like him, worldwide. What he has done is noble and patriotic, but not heroic.

I tip my hat to a fine citizen of planet earth.

[Renegade 13]

Well I guess I fit in with you Grandpa Kim and Ragnarok-X. I'm afraid I can not consider this man a hero. A hero to me is someone who performs an action or deed which goes way beyond what is expected of him, and way beyond what the vast majority of the population would do. A knowing sacrifice of ones self for another would be considered heroic by me. But the man we are talking about did not join the army knowing he was going to sacrifice his life for another. He probably expected to return. His life was cut short by a fanatical person, who is probably thought of as a hero by his own people. Therefore, heroism depends completely on your point of view. And, from my point of view, although this man may be patriotic and basically a good person, I can not consider him a hero.

This is simply my opinion, please no one take offense from it. I know there are many people who would disagree with me, but that's what makes the world interesting isn't it??

Tyrel

[taterbill]

Originally posted by Renegade 13:
...A hero to me is someone who performs an action or deed which goes way beyond what is expected of him, and way beyond what the vast majority of the population would do...

Jumping into this thread against my better judgement...

Let's see, Tillman turned down a huge offer from St. Louis in 2001 to stay with the Arizona Cardinals, because they were the team that beleived in him when everyone else said he was too small to be an NFL linebacker. Does that go "way beyond what is expected of him"?

A year later, he walked away from a three-year, $3.6 million offer from Arizona to join the Army. Is that "what the vast majority of the population would do"?

We can't all be Joan d'Arc or Mahatma Ghandi. We can only do the best with where circumstances have put us.

Pat Tillman consistently made choices that demonstrated his desire to do what he beleived to be honorable and right, despite the personal cost. Did he choose to die? Of course not. But he chose to place himself in a dangerous situation to serve his country. Despite my political views, I respect his actions immensely.

Hero? Absolutely.

[President_Elect_Shang]

Every day I wake up wondering if I will get �the call�.
Every waking moment I live in fear that someone in a uniform will knock on my door.
Every night I go to bed shacking from terror fighting back the tears that this could be �the night�.

What would I tell my kids? How would I face the rest of my life alone?

He was a hero, they are all heroes.

It is not the �definition� that makes them heroes; it is the �choices� they made.

[Grandpa Kim]

From Taterbill:

But he chose to place himself in a dangerous situation to serve his country. ...

Hero? Absolutely.

On that basis, every single person joining the military should be considered a hero. Shoot, I should be considered a hero for braving Deerfoot Trail during rush hour. I could be killed! But I choose to do so to feed my family. I made a choice to go into danger. Am I a hero? I think not.

[rextorres]

It's tragic that Tilman had to be Martyred for a cause he believed in. His sacrifice highlights to me the need for a draft, with no deferments, so that we all have an immediate personal stake in where our soldiers are sent.

Anywway we all participate in "defending our way of life" because we pay taxes. Nearly 50% of our tax dollars goes to funding the military and veterans.

[ April 24, 2004, 19:51: Message edited by: rextorres ]

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Hero is very subjective. Tillman sounds like a hero to me and I suspect a lot of soldier's would.

[taterbill]

Originally posted by rextorres:
Nearly 50% of our tax dollars goes to funding the military and veterans.

Actually, in 2003, which is obviously the most recent year for which concrete numbers are available, total defense and veteran affairs spending was approximately 18.15% of the federal budget.

Defense: $356.3B
Veterans Affairs: $26.4B
Total Federal Outlays: $2158.0B

Source:
Government Printing Office web site:
http://www.gpoaccess.gov/usbudget/fy05/browse.html

Bill

[rextorres]

Bill,

You made a mistake in your calculations. You included social security and medicare spending which is money people are merely getting back. I believe tax for this should not be used for anything else.

Social Security/Medicare Spending ~ $1.2B (Social Security Tax is collected for this)

Discretionary Spending ~ $800M - Defense Spending ~ $400M (Income Tax is collected for this)

So i'll clarify - 50% of our income tax goes to defense spending.

Anyway - my original point still stands - we all participate to "protect our way of life" which is true whether the portion of the taxes we pay to protect it is ~20% or ~50%.

[ April 24, 2004, 22:23: Message edited by: rextorres ]