OT:US don't qualify for EU membership, don't spank children, WW2 history.

[tesco samoa]

Thermo....

France and Britain delivered an ultimatum to Germany on the 1st of Sept to withdraw forces from Poland

On the 3rd they declared war when this ultimatum was not met.

This is quite well known.

[Loser]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
... the US don't even fulfill the basic criterias.
Mostly ... the death penalty.
But propably also some minority group issues...

I just have to ask. What, exactly are you talking about when you say "minority group issues"?

Please go into as much detail as you possibly can, as there is some chance for an anxious person to take offense to this and I am confident that you did not mean this in that sort of way.

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Ruatha:

What are the thoughts on this from you US fellows, are we Europeans squemish about human rights? (I don't think so), aren't you worried about your federal budget defeceit?

Death penalty? I'm certainly not worried about it. Of course, I believe in spanking children. To me, spanking children is the "junior" Version of the death penalty. Far as I'm concerned, there's a place and time for both. So, if getting rid of the death penalty, for example, helps us gain membership, to heck with it.

Deficit? Yeah, I don't like it. But you have to understand, this country runs on the premise that everyone needs to be in debt (spending all their money on crap they don't need so that corporations can make their dollars so that they can donate it to get "their" politicians elected/re-elected so that laws can be passed that benefit the corporations and allow them to make even more profit) and therefore, why not the government as well. Lead by example is what I say! After all, the money at the disposal of the US (and local) governments is there to be used to make sure favors are dispersed to the correct people (and a few dollars returning under the table) so that politicians can "invest" in getting re-elected and keeping the cycle going.

There are lots of "cycles", "vicious circles", and "scratch my back and I'll scratch your back" practices that have been going on for many many years. Just to darn bad the "lessor gods" don't understand there is an end to it coming. After all, we can't do ALL the US manufacturing outside the borders, all the IT support and design outside the borders, buy most of our energy outside the borders, have trade agreements with countries that continually favor the other countries, etc.

So, you see, those coffers you speak of are there for the legitimate looting of by the elected politicians. (of course, as long as a few bones are thrown to the "sheep" once in a while, it's OK ).

[ July 25, 2003, 21:01: Message edited by: Slynky ]

[Ruatha]

About minority Groups I have no facts, just observations from my travel there as to how a lot of the native americans, asians, hispanics and afroamericans are treated, and how much of that bad treatment is allowed and systemized, I don't say that there is no racism here in Europe, far from it, but there is more struggle against it from goverments I belive. (Don't really know much about the current US govt's struggle against it though!)

I was just wondering, how big is the current defecit in the US budget right now.
I now that it's big but so is the entire US budget, so in percantage it mightn't be that big.
3% is allowed in the EMU.

Spanking children????
Do you spank your grown up friends? Why not? Becourse they can fight back??
I've never been hit by my parents, I've never hit my kids and never will.
As it is Banned to physicly harm your kids (spanking) here in Sweden, spanking isn't very common, the rate of violent injuries and deaths among children has also decreased since that law was made in 1979. And compared to countries where spanking is allowed the violence against kids (death by violence) is far lower in countries where it is Banned.
Hitting your child means you've failed as an adult, you propably feel powerless and can't find any other way, it can't possibly be for the best of the child, saying that is really sick!

[ July 25, 2003, 21:40: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[StormcloudCreations]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
I was just wondering, how big is the current defecit in the US budget right now.
I now that it's big but so is the entire US budget, so in percantage it mightn't be that big.
3% is allowed in the EMU.

I think (reading somewhere) that the deficit went over the $1 TRILLION dollar mark awhile back. That's a lot of money.

The US state of California alone is about $30+ billion in the hole, and the inept, spend-happy governor (Gray Davis) is about to get the axe for it soon in a recall election.

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by StormcloudCreations:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ruatha:
I was just wondering, how big is the current defecit in the US budget right now.
I now that it's big but so is the entire US budget, so in percantage it mightn't be that big.
3% is allowed in the EMU.

I think (reading somewhere) that the deficit went over the $1 TRILLION dollar mark awhile back. That's a lot of money.

The US state of California alone is about $30+ billion in the hole, and the inept, spend-happy governor (Gray Davis) is about to get the axe for it soon in a recall election.

---

Yep, alot of money. But so is the US budget aswell, Do you now any % number?

(BTW, this thread is started only becourse I haven't gotten any PBW turn tonight!)

[ July 25, 2003, 22:11: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[spoon]

Originally posted by Ruatha:

What are the thoughts on this from you US fellows

They're just afraid that if we sign a Trade & Research Treaty with them, we'll just use it to bypass their minefields.

[Krsqk]

Originally posted by StormcloudCreations:
I think (reading somewhere) that the deficit went over the $1 TRILLION dollar mark awhile back. That's a lot of money.

Actually, the total debt is ~$1 trillion (or a billion for you EU types ). The deficit (overspending for a given year) is much, much less than that. Although, I doubt if that's due to any good sense of Congress.

[Ruatha]

About spanking:
In 1992 Accidental deaths in US was 13.3 in 100 000 and in sweden 5.

In 1965, half of the Swedish population believed that physical punishment is necessary in childrearing, only 6% of Swedes born since that time support its use today (SIFO, 1981; SCB, 1996). The implications of such a societal shift for reducing child physical abuse may be revealed in the following statistic: between 1975 and 1996, only four children died in Sweden from the effects of physical abuse

----------------------------------------------
"Haeuser points out that an interesting change in Swedish childrearing has occurred since passage of the 1979 law. By 1988, the picture had changed markedly. Child guidance professionals were admitting that permissive childrearing was a failed experiment, and parent educators were telling parents to "dare to be parents." She saw parents setting limits and disciplining their children - partly because the professionals were now giving this sort of advice, partly because the sociopolitical climate had become more conservative, and partly because the 1979 law had forced parents to think about childrearing options.

Swedish parents now discipline their children; and in doing so, they rely on a variety of alternatives to physical punishment. The method most commonly used is verbal conflict resolution, which invites parents as well as children to express their anger in words. Haeuser, whose Last study was more than a decade ago, concludes that the law appears to be effective and has demonstrated that it is indeed possible to bring up children without smacking and spanking."

-----------------------------------

In an article entitled, Spanking of Children Much Less Common, on the Statistics Sweden website, Sanden and Lundgren conclude that a clear majority of the Swedish people are against all forms of physical punishment of children. Of pupils born abroad coming to Sweden after 1990, 21 per cent have been subjected to occasional physical punishment in comparison to four per cent of all children born in Sweden. This information was taken from two surveys commissioned by the Ministry of Health and Social Affairs in the Spring of 1994 and 1995 and which were carried out by Statistics Sweden.

http://www.nospank.net/durrant.htm

[ July 25, 2003, 22:16: Message edited by: Ruatha ]

[Slynky]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Spanking children????
Do you spank your grown up friends? Why not? Becourse they can fight back??
I've never been hit by my parents, I've never hit my kids and never will.
As it is Banned to physicly harm your kids (spanking) here in Sweden, spanking isn't very common, the rate of violent injuries and deaths among children has also decreased since that law was made in 1979. And compared to countries where spanking is allowed the violence against kids (death by violence) is far lower in countries where it is Banned.
Hitting your child means you've failed as an adult, you propably feel powerless and can't find any other way, it can't possibly be for the best of the child, saying that is really sick!

Well, it's not particularly allowed in the US. I say particularly because I'm not really sure what's allowed. I'm pretty sure you can slap a hand when a toddler reaches for candy at the store. And slap it again (and say NO") when the child reaches for it again. I also think one can swat a child on the butt/fanny. But, I'm pretty sure the belt and paddle and such or "out the door". So, for the most part, it's not really allowed here.

Now, from a guy without credentials in all this sort of stuff, all I can say is that even with these types of laws and rules, the US still has a shameful amount of infant deaths due to physical abuse. My opinion is that, regardless of the laws, idiots and *******s will physically harm their children. And, if spanking were allowed, responsible parents would deal that type of punishment out in an organized manner without any harm to the child other than some stinging.

Now, we don't spank our kids any more. We stopped when they were able to understand enough english to know that what they did was wrong and "this" is what their punishment is/was (around 2-3 years old). But, considering what I see around me, read in the papers, see on TV, hear on the radio, our youth, which receives much less corporal punishment than it did 40 years ago, is much more violent, much more likely to kill parents, schoolmates, and complete strangers. (of course, this Last statement, I feel, isn't just due to lack of any painful and corrective spankings while growing up, it's due to MANY other factors, worthy of its own thread).

I was spanked when I was very bad growing up. I think I deserved it. I didn't leave my parents with much choice. So, am I "screwed up" because of it? I doubt it.