MP: Noobs vs. Vets III: Revolution, MA, CBM. Game Over. Noobs Triumph!

[namad]

what backline? there is no backline only a waterfront... the backline can swing around the polar cap and attack from behind? i mean there is no way to arrange things on this map and not have a backline..... the only way to totally avoid backlines is with a map like zeldor's... with a highway system that reroutes the backline straight to the frontline and on zeldor's map this highway is "caves" on clevelands map it is "waterbased polar icecaps"


so...yeah... ?hrmm?

[TwoBits]

What do you mean by backline? Is that the same as 'backfield'? OK, sure, with a wraparound map, there is no hard back-line border. And sure, if you're playing Vanheim, or some other sailing race, you might be OK (although where can you sail to? the only land you can probably reach would be your teammate across the 'polar cap').

But if we go with TheDemon's set-up, if you're one of those 4 Noob teams 'stuck' behind your teammates (yes, in a land-centric view), you have to do a lot of awkward maneuvering to reach the front via land, or somehow get into the water, and then circle 90 degrees around the map, to get at the enemy - how long is that going to take? never, if you're say, Abyssia).

My 'linear-bulge/two-crescents' set-up is the nearest thing we're going to get to the ideal 'vets in the center of a circle of noobs' set-up with this map. No noob has to sit out of the action early on (or resort to difficult, complicated, and easily thwarted 'tunneling'), and the vets still get sea access (granted, with only two nations, but they can just put their strongest water/sailing powers at either end of the line).

Hey, just my two cents, but I know I would not like to be one of the 4 noobs who has to snake his way to the front, or sit on his thumbs staring at the water until he's forged/summoned an aquatic force.

[namad]

if the vets get a line down the center... and the noobs are not all placed along the sea that would end up giving the noobs a giant central location totally surrounded only by their own nations ... so...

the only way to even consider making the vets a central line would be to make all the noobs coastal... which would result in every noob being far away from every vet.... this would however limit the nature of having 4backline noobs but.... on a team of 12v6 4backline players is not that bad especially since they can make attempts to cross the ocean and aren't literally blocked in... i guess either or is fine with me though... it's just if i was on your team i'd want some backline players intentionally

[TheDemon]

Its not just the water polar caps, the southern ones are half land as well.

Anyway, here's the crescent starts. Like namad says, the noobs basically have to be all coastal, or else you're going to have to explain why an inland position is in any way fair. Could be workable. The two vets in the center are kind of close though, I'd like them to be farther apart as pushing back allied dominion is never fun.

You could also invert the formation I proposed, attached as well. That would get each noob onto the frontline, more or less.

[TwoBits]

That's why I suggested that the Vet's line "bulged" in the middle, with something akin to a diamond shape.

Yeah, I had some thoughts that it might be wise to have some 'production' nations in the rear, supposedly out of harms way. But the consensus was that that would lower the odds for those who had to slog it out on the front - with say 4 noobs in the rear, at the front the odds would only be 3-2 instead of 2-1.

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by chrispedersen

It seems the vets and newbs are set, so I'll back out. Thanks and good luck!

Still could use ya as vet alternate if you don't mind.

[Septimius Severus]

I'm glad to see everyone weighing in on this placement issue, even Dr. P had a word or two to say. Both TwoBits and TheDemon have valid arguments. TwoBits, what do you think of TheDemons last two thumbnails? Both of which lets us bring all our nations forces to bear via land routes.

[TheDemon]

Namad proposed something like this on IRC, and I'm inclined to agree. Less dominion-induced suicide for the vets, and more provinces in contention as the vets don't get a big interior. The offset starts aren't symetrical, but I think they're fairer.

The one attached to this post gets my vote.

[Septimius Severus]

TheDemon, repost that last thumbnail side by side with the second thumbnail from the previous post. Thanks.

[TheDemon]

Asymetrical Starts, Vets in Center (my vote):


vs

Symetrical Starts, Noobs in Center crescents, Vets in Outside semicircles:


I'm told at least one member of our team really opposes the 2nd one because they feel it gives the noobs too many uncontested provs.