Wish-List for Dominions 4

[HoneyBadger]

You can't really base anything in mythology on time, simply because time, in mythology, is the absolute most fluid thing imaginable.

So, to say that you've got more powerful creatures from an earlier age, evolution almost doesn't come into it. Generation is much more important, because a few generations back, you might be descended from the Pantokrator. Or the "generations" in question might be thousands upon thousands of years.

Also, in mythology, evolution tends to go somewhat in reverse. The more powerful beings are earlier in time, closer to the Gods, while the recent generations tend to be less and less spectacular-weaker, slower, less intelligent and gifted.

So, you could have Rimtursar being the original, glacial, ice baddies, with the current Niefel giants being midgets in comparison, and have it make sense, because in becoming more and more human/mortal: Ymir to Rimtursar to Niefel to Jotun and beyond, they're diluting their spark of the Original Divine.

[llamabeast]

As a suggestion not based on anything I've seen anyone else post here: The amulet of the fish turns air into water around the wearer. Shouldn't this allow the wearer to cast the spell Summon Water Power anywhere?

Presumably there's not enough water in the little bit provided by the amulet.

[Tiavals]

The thing in mythology is indeed about generations, as was the cultural norm in the past decades. In the past, the elderly people were considered wise and respected, because they were more connected to the cultural ancestors of the people, while after the theory of evolution became widespread, the elderly are despised and considered worthless, while the youth is revered as having the potential to do anything, because it is thought that they are somehow more "advanced" than their ancestors.

As was said, the farther a line goes from the ancestor, the more diluted it becomes, having less and less of the blood of the great ones from before. Plus, in mythology it is almost always so that the earlier creatures were the most powerful, so it's more thematic.

I think in the description of Tj�tse the Abductor it is said he stole the apples of immortality from the Aesir and thus gained an unnaturally long life. You could deduce that he stole the apples after becoming old himself, thus stopping his aging, which in turn can be used to make a hypothesis that the Rimtursar and Aesir lived any number of years ago, from a hundred to tens of thousands.

Also supporting the theory that Rimtursar were large is the Son of Nifel pretender, who himself is size 6 and has almost 100hp. It is said he is descended from the Rimtursar. Now, it could be argued that since he is called the Son of Nifel, he infact is descended from the Nifel Giants, not the Rimtursar, but why is he unnaturally large then? Or is Nifel perhaps the name of some ancient Rimtursar who is the grand ancestor of the whole Nifel giant race?

Perhaps the Rimtursar were mostly ice themselves, with each generation of giants becoming less cold and more human. Sort of like how the Abysians are.

[DenStoreFrelser]

Tiavals said:
Also supporting the theory that Rimtursar were large is the Son of Nifel pretender, who himself is size 6 and has almost 100hp. It is said he is descended from the Rimtursar. Now, it could be argued that since he is called the Son of Nifel, he infact is descended from the Nifel Giants, not the Rimtursar, but why is he unnaturally large then? Or is Nifel perhaps the name of some ancient Rimtursar who is the grand ancestor of the whole Nifel giant race?

Perhaps the Rimtursar were mostly ice themselves, with each generation of giants becoming less cold and more human. Sort of like how the Abysians are.

You've got me on the time bit, but there's still Tjatse (I thought his name was spelled with an a, not an �, but I could be mistaken.) himself to suggest that the Rimtursar in general might not have been much larger than their descendants. Also, the Niefel giant description says that they "have sprung from the glaciers of Niefelheim". This could mean that they do not have generations at all, and that they are born from the glacial ice itself, and "descended from" is used only to show that their current society as a whole is descended from the one of old. Their high chill effect, which puts the "winds of the underworld" of some undead units to shame, would also be hard to top. The Son of Niefel has a weaker chill effect than Tjatse (I forgot to note this above, but Tjatse has a chill rating of 21, as compared to the Jarl's 17, the ordinary giant or Son of Niefel's 15) or even the Niefel Jarls, which makes me think he is nothing more than a large ordinary giant, perhaps (If their biology permits it) of prominent heritage or born during a time when the glaciers were larger/colder than usual. His title could simply mean that he was born in Niefelheim.

llamabeast said:
Presumably there's not enough water in the little bit provided by the amulet.

The amulet turns the air around the wearer to water, which might help the wearer absorb water from the air surrounding his own layer of water. The spell description doesn't say anything about what in the water the mage gathers power from, so if it happens to be the currents or something similar, then the mage would need to have skill in air magic as well to "translate" similar movements in the air. Of course, this is way too much work for something this insignificant. I guess the reason I thought it up was that I kind of expect Nethack-like details in all the games I play.

[HoneyBadger]

Niefelheim is (kinda/sorta) the name of the place where the Niefel giants live/originated. But, it's really more of an idea, since Niefelheim is the place of endless cold, in Norse mythology. "Son of Niefel" or Nifel, if you like, is suggesting that the Pretender is the spiritual descendant, or inhabitant once-removed, from that place. Like a "Son" of Britain, or an "American Son".

There's no real embodimental ruler of Niefelheim in Norse mythology, that I'm aware of, although Muspelheim, it's hot counterpart, was ruled by one of the largest and most dangerous giants, Surtr.

Ymir would be the actual father of the Jotun race-which includes the Niefel giants, the latter-day Jotuns, the Muspel (fire) giants, the mountain giants, and even the sea giants (for there were such things), as well as being the father-through the line of Thrudgelmir-of the Troll race. Ymir may or may not have been the grandfather of the Aesir, that's debateable, but the Jotun race was certainly able to interbreed with the Aesir.

Ymir was so big that his corpse was used to create the very stuff of the world, and from his corpse was spawned the Dwarf race, transformed from maggots, and the Human race, created from trees. So yeah, Ymir was biiiiig.

Labling a Jotun as, say, a "mountain" or "sea" giant is dangerous though, because they varied greatly in power and nature, and while some would qualify as, say, an "ice giant", they were every bit as complex as humans, and even more so, being an ancient, magically powerful, and ultimately alien, unpredictable, mysterious and protean race.

Some Jotuns were themselves as large as mountain-ranges, but they could also be human-sized, or atleast Aesir-sized, and they ranged from extremely hideous (tusks, multiple limbs-Thrudgelmir had 6 heads, etc.), to quite beautiful-the wives of the Aesir. They could also commonly change shape, into not only eagles, but otters and wolves. Maybe not all of them, but certainly a good portion of the population.

This was exemplified to the greatest degree in Loki, who was half (muspel) giant, half Aesir, and could change his shape into anything, male or female, and even give birth.

[Tiavals]

You're right DenStoreFrelser, it is Tjatse, my fault. Also, you might have a point about the Nifel giant origin. But it also says that the Rimtursar are their ancestors. Perhaps they turned into glaciers when they died. Also, the Son of Niefel could just be a giant between the Jotun and Niefel giants, that is, a lesser giant. He's just become powerful enough to become a god. Doesn't matter what his origins are, since many mages are pretenders while they're humans. Yet HoneyBadger offers a good explanation as well.

Regardless, I want to see the Rimtursar in the game.

[Autochthon]

Here's another idea...

Can we get an in-game mp3 player? Something that allows us to select and change the sounds and music used. Not only does this help create more ambience (Your own theme music? Yes, please.), but also can provide an audio cue to the conditions in the game.

For example, you can set music to change when your units start reaching a certain threshold Fatigue and/or Morale.

Clicking on a province flag can tell you who it belongs to as well as how strong its Dominion is by the theme music played as well.

Finally, audio is much more amenable for modding than graphics (even those used in Dom3). This allows players to create custom factions "on the cheap".

[HoneyBadger]

Nation+age-specific music, anyone?

[Autochthon]

Another one for the AI/Orders list:

Can we either get Commander order that either stay with/inside a specific squad, or have a squad order that allows them to form around the Commander?

That way, you can simply have your commander move, and your squads assigned to him/her/it simply surround him/her/it and kill anything that gets in the way. It would work wonders for buffing units like Standard Bearers and Commanders w/Leadership

I think a Hit and Away/Skirmish order has been mentioned...

And for gods' sake, why not a "Kill the Mage" spell? After the first Super-Mega-Ultra-Uber-Incantation of Mass Castration(tm), your newly-minted eunuchs would immediately make a beeline for the unconscious dork who make their lives suddenly less enjoyable, no?

The same applies for mages casting support spells. When you see all the hard work you put in rearranging the facial features on the enemy in front of you undone in a flash, you're going to find the person responsible and make him stop in a pointed manner. It's a well-understood rule in MMORPG PvP to kill the healers first.

[Autochthon]

Oh yeah, I'd also like to see battlefield magic rituals.

What I mean is that instead of casting a spell and seeing the effects run themselves, have spells that the mage has to upkeep to keep the effect up.

This allows a mage to trade off greater power (lower path requirements, fatigue efficiency) for less flexibility (can't cast another spell while keeping the current one up, and can't move).

I've seen this in other games, and think it's a neat mechanics. But I don't know if it really adds to gameplay, or complicates it unnecessarily.