Devnull Mod Gold: updates and discussion

[Fyron]

1 - Move the sector cloak ability to the monster facilities. I am pretty sure that it will work on them (tested it a few Versions back) and this will make sure that all monster planets have the cloak, even without bases.

It only works if you save the game, quit, and then reload. The next SE4 patch should make them work without the need to reload.

[Puke]

ah.. for a new game, it shouldnt matter - right? and simultanious games are saved/quitted/reloaded every turn, so....

I dont mean the 'cloaking' ability that has some sort of issue with the cloaking icon appearing for planets, i mean the 'sector cloaking' storm ability, which is always-on.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Puke:
Hey Rollo, I was going to write you an email with some thoughts on space monsters, but I think posting here will be better - more people to discuss things with.

I would like to see some more challenging space monsters. You did a really good job on them, and they are pretty tough as it is, but they could be harder. Maybe create a second monster race with the improvements, and leave the current one as-is. that way, people can choose which to play with.

Here is what I am thinking:

1 - Move the sector cloak ability to the monster facilities. I am pretty sure that it will work on them (tested it a few Versions back) and this will make sure that all monster planets have the cloak, even without bases. this is important if you are going to:

2 - allow the monsters to colonize. not to hard, just give them a generic colony component that can hit any colony type. give the colony component cloaking ability (regular cloak, no supply use, not sector cloak.) so that the colony ship cant be shot down or captured. I think the AI can handle cloaks on colony ships, and will uncloak before attempting to colonize. if not, give it a high enough sector cloak to avoid being seen, but a high enough sensor to see through its cloak and colonize target planets. (i ran into trouble trying to colonize with a sector cloak, because i could not see the planet i was trying to colonize).

3 - put spaceyards on those space stations! increase the monster production capacity!

a long time ago there was a discusion about this next idea. I dont remember who first came up with it, but its still a darn good idea:

4 - stick planetary and system shield abilities on the monster facilities. this makes them indestructable. now create a sensor component that can see through monster cloaks, and put it on a ship design that is possible (but difficult) to capture. you can either make the player used the captured ship as a sensor, or allow them to analyze it for the technology.

you can capture, analyze, and use racial technologies if it is setup right. if a component requires technology A, and technology A requires technology B, where tech B is racial and tech A is not, then anyone can analyze the component - if i remember correctly.

Hey Puke, I have considered all of these ideas in the past and tested some of them. Let me reply to each of them in some more detail:

1 - I tried cloaking facilities. Didn't work for me (*shrugs). That's why I did the workaround with the bases. I admit that I tested this with a rather old Version (I think before gold patch 1), could be it is working now.

2 - giving the monsters colonization is easy enough, but can be problematic. If the monsters get tech via ruins for example, it cannot only screw up their designs, but also it could mean that they are able to use tech they are not supposed to have. You really don't wanna have the monsters use offensive intel for example.

3 - yes, I have used that in the past. In fact the monster space yard is still in the components.txt file. I think the earliest Version of the monsters used them and proved too overwhelming. If you like that, it is easy to add back in.

4 - For several reasons I like the monster planets 'out of the game'. Obscene production of intel points for one reason. These things should never fall into the hands of a human player. I tested the capture of space monsters and tech analysis and it does work fine. However, I like the fact that monsters can't be captured, because they can be abused too much (for example as mobile quantum reactors for the players fleets).

bottom line: I like all these ideas, just not for the way the monsters currently work (well, except for the SY idea. That one is easy enough to do and has no adverse effects other than making the monsters a real b..ch to fight against).
However, all these ideas would work great for another monster race that acts more a swarm: colonization, huge numbers, tough ground troops, planet invasions, just heaps and heaps of critters that threaten to swallow up the whole quadrant. I did want to add a 2nd race like that, but have not found the time yet to do it. It is definately on the list of things I want to do at some point.
As for additional stuff to the current monsters I'd like even bigger and badder monsters, rather than an increase in numbers or colonization. There is a pretty big gap between the big monsters (dragons) and the huge worms that can be filled with some new and nasty designs.

[spoon]

I'm confused whether these are changes in the most recent released Version (1.70???), or if these are changes that are going to be released soon.

I'm starting in a game today, using DevNull + PvK Balance, and want to make sure I got the right Version!

Thanks!

Originally posted by Rollo:
just to keep those who are interested up to date:

* updated standard formations form the stock game
* added more positions to the custom formations (Hard Flanks, Dark Wing, Cube, etc)
* changed values for Massive Planetary Shield Generator (ruins tech)
* reduced cost for Emotionless trait
* reduced cost for Advanced Power Conservation trait
* reduced cost for Mechanoids trait
* added new ruins tech (ancient atmospheric processors)
* added new ruins tech (gravity field inducers)

[Fyron]

They are changes that will be in the next release Version. A teaser if you will.

[Rollo]

Originally posted by spoon:
I'm confused whether these are changes in the most recent released Version (1.70???), or if these are changes that are going to be released soon.

I'm starting in a game today, using DevNull + PvK Balance, and want to make sure I got the right Version!

Thanks!

The current Version 1.70 has not changed.

These changes are in the Version that is currently under development (1.71 or 1.80; not sure yet, if it is compatible with old saves). That Version won't be released any time soon. Not before the Last SE4 patch anyways.

[Puke]

Originally posted by Rollo:
1 - I tried cloaking facilities. Didn't work for me (*shrugs). That's why I did the workaround with the bases. I admit that I tested this with a rather old Version (I think before gold patch 1), could be it is working now.

I thought the guy that did the Space Monsters vs the Galactic Patrol mod had sucessfully dont cloaking facilities? I think he had a monster 'swarm' too, maybe his code can be re-used? if its still around.

[Fyron]

Cloaking facilities work, except that you have to save, close and reload the game after one is built in order to enable the cloaking buttons. This is not an issue in PBEM games, but it is in SP. The next patch will fix this and allow them to work fine without needing to reload the game.

[ February 10, 2004, 01:25: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Rollo]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Cloaking facilities work, except that you have to save, close and reload the game after one is built in order to enable the cloaking buttons...

yeah, but normal cloaking via the button is not good enough. The monster planets need a sector cloak.

[Rollo]

I tried sector cloak on a facility. Doesn't seem to work.