MBT's

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Posting this now as the site pulled it from their archives based on the contract news of the past week, This will save sometime later. This will be my last on ANDERS until the contract gets signed,
http://www.armyrecognition.com/polan...res_video.html

I made mention of this in the previous post concerning the Russian cuts in R&D and offered my thoughts concerning the ARMATA, here's an update and a little something extra...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/augus...3_0908121.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._pictures.html


Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I seem to remember a few +months back I believe someone (Don?) asked a question concerning smoke grenades for tanks and their effectiveness. I think the question was settled as I recall relating to coverage area and range. Below is the info as it applies to the VARTA system as equipped on the OPLOT. This will either reinforce the answers given then (To include mine.) or cause maybe a closer look and slight adjustment. Key points are highlighted.

http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/index.php

SPECIAL PROTECTION MEANS

Optronic countermeasures system

To improve the tank protectability, the Varta optronic countermeasure system is integrated in the tank.

The optronic countermeasure system provides:

•confusing of the guidance systems of ATGM by putting out laser jamming covering the horizontal plane of ±18° relative to the main gun tube and ±2° in the vertical plane
•jamming of the ATGM guidance systems that use laser illumination of targets, semi-automatic laser guided homing projectiles as well as artillery systems equipped with laser range-finders by activating the remote fast-deploying aerosol screens in a sector of ±45° relative to the main gun tube
Optronic jamming station

Time of readiness 6 h (unlimited in combat conditions)
Time of uninterrupted operation 6 (в боевых условиях не ограниченно)
Sector of setting the light interferences relatively the gun:
in elevation ±2 degrees
in azimuth (relative to the gun barrel axis) ±20 degrees

Aerosol screen laying system

Mode of operation automatic, semiautomatic, manual
System reaction time in auto mode less than 0.5 s
Coverage sector by four laser emitters:
in azimuth 360 dg
in elevation -5 to +25 dg
Qty of launchers 12
Grenade caliber 80 mm
Screen laying range at least 50 m
Applicable grenade:
time for laying the screen not more than 3 s
average area covered by a grenade 10x15 m
effective screen duration time 60 s

A little news...
1. As the picture shows the MERKAVA tank deal for Columbia is now dead. Columbia was to have been the first export customer for the MERKAVA.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58

2. Indonesia's LEO deal with the Dutch has ended as well. However the LEO A6 is the MBT of choice. It should be somewhat easy to figure out where they are getting them from, if not it'll be on the Patch Post.

3. TROPHYS all around!! Well if your a MERKAVA. They are actually moving at a rapid pace to get them installed on all their MBTs. B)The next is more see what happens when "Can't we all just get along?". C) A little something about a pulse cannon.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_...n_1307124.html

4. Well the next isn't the best image I've seen of the ARJUM MKII, hopefuly it'll go up from here. Evaluations are on going as of late June/early July.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/augus...a_1808124.html

Have a great weekend!!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I've been doing some research concerning the Warsaw Pact that will represent my first Patch Post. While conducting that research I came across this CIA assessment of Soviet tanks, possible use against NATO, composition of Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries to include Non Soviet Warsaw Pact (NSWP) and more. Along with the USA field recognition document posted again below as well, you designers ought to have variable "field day" with this info. The first and others I'll use for the Patch Post come off the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) CIA website. They are in PDF format though they have another format available but you'll have to go to the site for that. Also if using PDF, USE THE DOCUMENT PAGE NUMBERS-NOT THE PDF ONE, that's because the first pages are blank where routing info and notes would've appeared. These refs compliment each other though there are five years in difference between them. Oldest first. Enjoy!
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000261345.pdf
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0534/lsn1.htm

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

The McMahon Line was established almost a hundred years ago and has been disputed over since, it lead to a border war 1962 between India and China and there have been other incidents since. This area is still considered "hot" even today between them. China has been spending huge amounts of capital in infrastructure both in rail and road transport. China has had some "firsts" in this area themselves in troop deployments but more importantly military exercises (Which Broadsword has covered in detail as well.), but for me this is about India's push for and desire to attain the T-90MS (Which is on my list.) and the first time armor has been deployed to this area as described, for some this is good reading, for others this could be a "catalyst" for a scenario or campaign Note also in the article the armor unit formation data which might be of some use as well.
http://www.economist.com/blogs/asiav...orial_disputes
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/...to-defend.html
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2012/...ing-china.html

Thought about the scenario etc. forum but it didn't seem to fit there, so enjoy the tank talk. But like the MMRCA,CH-47F, To SPA OR NOT (They just cancelled a 4th tender, though they managed to get down to 2 contenders this time.), AH-64D "LONGBOW" and finally the ARJUN II we might see the T-90MS...SOMEDAY!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I was using these as part of a "research" project I was working on. I did not want to waste these resources so I intend to post them on both the Jets and Planes...and MBT Threads. The information has been verified by history and newer documents released from other sources. They serve to both inform and to assist the game designers out there. Posted twice as not everyone has the same shared interests.
The below are from the CIA, released ten to twenty years later from date of the reports, classified Secret to Top Secret. All are PDF formatted.
CIA AIR...
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000261313.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000278545.pdf
CIA LAND/AIR...
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0001099668.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000261340.pdf
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000261345.pdf

Regards,
Pat

[PN79]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

I've been doing some research concerning the Warsaw Pact that will represent my first Patch Post. While conducting that research I came across this CIA assessment of Soviet tanks, possible use against NATO, composition of Soviet and Warsaw Pact countries to include Non Soviet Warsaw Pact (NSWP) and more. Along with the USA field recognition document posted again below as well, you designers ought to have variable "field day" with this info. The first and others I'll use for the Patch Post come off the Freedom Of Information Act (FOIA) CIA website. They are in PDF format though they have another format available but you'll have to go to the site for that. Also if using PDF, USE THE DOCUMENT PAGE NUMBERS-NOT THE PDF ONE, that's because the first pages are blank where routing info and notes would've appeared. These refs compliment each other though there are five years in difference between them. Oldest first. Enjoy!
http://www.foia.cia.gov/docs/DOC_000...0000261345.pdf
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0534/lsn1.htm

Regards,
Pat

I consider interesting that CIA judgment about czechoslovak tank force was about 2000 tanks less than in reality. There were 4585 tanks in 1st July 1988 and that number is without several hundreds of T-34 still in storages but officially disbanded and waited for scrapping.

[DRG]

It's one reason why old documents/reports like this should be be taken with a grain of salt. 25 year old "intelligence analysis" is only useful as a curiosity.

When we started this project, these type of things were all we had to work from which is why OOB work continues to be an ongoing project and why people dig up "weird" errors sometimes


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

That report was one of the older ones posted but dealt with total force units by the countries without accounting for the Soviet tank divisions within a country which in some cases would easily double or +triple the number of tanks in any given Warsaw Pact country. What was important in posting these documents was the fact that the strategic and tactical planning and the overall types of equipment involved in carrying out those plans has been shown by later Russian released documents and ones from other sources (Governmental and or Military.) have in most cases supported that analysis. But the bottom line here is generally speaking this isn't a game of how many as much as what equipment and tactics. For that reason it was posted as a tool for game designers and a reasonable start point for equipment and general information, I.E. how interesting would it be to play East Germany with Russian T-80 tanks involved, which ware only posted there. Poland even had some Russian equipment that was unique to there as well as in Czechoslovakia to support the mission requirements of those fronts.
But as Don has pointed out yet again if the documentation isn't thoroughly read through, incomplete, or from dubious sources and or is otherwise misunderstood as happened to me in looking into the Warsaw Pact as will be discussed below, these issues cause long term game equipment problems, because the other item Don didn't mention is how much equipment got into the game while in the developmental stages or just because some blog or other started with "I heard (Or saw somewhere that...) that...". I would take the time to read it all as I did and see how time and better Intel changed some of the data and note the transition from the offensive mindset to the defensive one of the mid 80's.

This issue has come up in the past here in the "East German OOB" Thread and other places and references (To include the USA among others.) of did East Germany operate the T-62. Though the thread used overall some "lesser" sources but provided the majority of the data, and though far from perfect myself, I dug into a matter further to get the "final answer" (Yeah right!?!). So I directly contacted the German National Tank Museum which is run both by the city of Munster Germany and the BUNDSWEHR it is located on the site of the BUNDSWEHR Officer and NCO Armor training grounds and school...

T-62 MBT‏
9/20/12 Reply ▼Reply
View profileTo [email protected]
From: patrick conklin ()
Sent: Thu 9/20/12 2:33 AM
To: [email protected]

Good Morning!
I've been doing some research I whether or not the DDR NVA was equipped with the Soviet T-62 MBT. Except for a U.S. Army field recognition training manual supported by JANES (1990/1991) of Soviet/Warsaw Pact Armor, the preponderance of evidence suggests that only Soviet Forces stationed in the DDR used them. So I felt the matter was settled until, I came across a well known European travel guide online service that supposedly shows what's described as a "Soviet made T-62 tank that was in the service of the East German Army". I could not make out the nationality marking on the turret, though the tank numbers look Soviet to me. Can you clarify this for me? Was the NVA equipped with the T-62 MBT?
I hope you can help as I know you are the German National Tank Museum. Thank You for your time and patience!! If you reply please do so in a separate email as some replies seem the get "redirected" before getting to me.
Have a Great Day!!

Regards,
Pat Conklin USN/SS Ret.
"Im Unterseekraftstolz läuft tief! Aber mit jenem gleichen Stolz vergessen wir nie um unsere Kameraden noch auf ewiger Patrouille."

The bottom line full final response...

AW:‏
10/16/12 Reply ▼Reply
From: Ralf Raths (@deutsches-panzermuseum.de)
Sent: Tue 10/16/12 7:29 AM
To: patrick conklin

Hi Pat,
I answer your mail regarding the T-62 – that’s more my field than Julias.
You’re right – the T-62 was never officially issued to the Nationale Volksarmee. This is the reason why this tank has the Red Star as a marking and not the sign of the GDR.
So, organisationally it doesn’t belong in this area, but of course no tank museum would be complete without showing this design, so we placed it inside the row of T-models to show the big leap in gun technology.

Best wishes
Ralf Raths

I hope you noted the wording after "never", that wording indicates where the confusion started with this item in the past possibly. So there you have it no DDR T-62 tanks, sometimes you have to go the extra mile or two!?! And do me a favor read the whole thing please! Thank You!! Maybe they can answer the TIGER tank speed question(s) as well!?!
Now about that French 105mm arty, a PITA if ever there was one, but not forgotten...

Here's the website...
http://www.panzermuseum-munster.de/?page_id=1273

Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well still dealing with some issues, but I felt these items warranted posting. I have a couple of updates and if you will a "validation" of an item submitted last year or the year before that Don added, it's good to have consistent references and the first item points that out.
1. Don the 3D rendering can now be replaced maybe by one of these pictures now but unless you have an issue with it the ALTAY Icon is probably good as it stands. The first two prototypes are on time and already out on the test range. One is being used for on and off road testing the other will test the weapons systems. The next two prototypes will incorporate any improvements noted after the initial trials are completed. Full rate production is still planned for early 2015. South Korean
K2 tech went into the ALTAY as well as lessons learned from the
M60T Project with Israel (SMI) and the LEOPARD-2T project. Note it has sixteen grenade launchers mounted.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/novem...y_2211124.html




This last because I've not seen many good pictures of the T-129 we entered a couple of years back but to check what start date we gave them as is obvious they're flying here. Though I think we had them operational this past summer if memory serves.


2. After the disappointment of the BLACK EAGLE (152mm MG) and the T-95, this is a case to paraphrase "Lots of news is good news" the ARMATA is going to provide the basis for many different platforms. The T-90MS is the test bed for the ARMATA and will probably be the last modification of the T-90 as well. The ARMATA prototype is still on track for early or mid 2013 and it will be unveiled at a military exhibition.
http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20121122/177676314.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/novem...m_2311121.html

3. Flash...ARJUN MKII news is a little "hush hush" but fragments coming out suggust the on going evaluations are going well. If successful enough (More then originally planned for.) tanks might be ordered to retire the T-72 tanks. The T-90S as built in India will likely stay around. Based on the problems India was having with Russia in getting some of the parts needed to complete building the T-90S, India is still mulling over the idea of getting a licensing agreement to also build the T-90MS.
Flash...Nov. 9th Indonesia reaches agreement to build a light tank in a joint venture with Russia.
Flash... Russia to design and build a new IFV for it's Airborne Forces. Expected to be fielded in 2015/2016.

Today was a good day all around, I hope your weekends are as well!!

Regards,
Pat

[luigim]

I think that Zulfiqar 2 needs to be deleted from the OOB, like you said in the previous post, because it's only a test bed, and Zulfiqar 3 has to be added.

http://iranmilitarynews.org/2012/09/...odern-threats/

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/zulfiqar_3.htm

http://www.army-technology.com/proje...rmainbattleta/

http://www.military-today.com/tanks/zulfiqar_2.htm

Regards, luigim