SE4 Editor

[Drax]

hehe, wish I had known about that 3 days ago.

I started looking at the map files. I wouldnt say I am making progress toward a map editor, but I am begginging to see patterns. Of course, that may be the effect of staring at rows of hex for an hour. Still, it worked my I was modding moo2. Moo2 was far kinder to work on map wise.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

somebody managed to make a map generater for stars, so it should be possible.

[Fyron]

I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors.

As soon as you let people access the code, someone (or many someones) will devise ways to cheat.

[Pocus]

Nice work and layout anyway Drax. Congrats!

[TerranC]

There is one effective way to edit a map:
Use the map editor to make the systems, place the planets, and everything else BUT the warp points.

Save the map and load the map and start a game with it, with tech setting set to high, enable save map in game, enable cheat modes, and load up your race as the only one in the game.

Start the game, and click yes when it asks you if you still want to play the game.

Build a stellar manip ship, and warp away.

After you're done, save and finish!

[Drax]

That would probably be less effort than making a map editor, from what I can see. It looks as though each time a map is saved a random number is generated that changes the value of most of the file, so the same map can be a different file size each time it is saved, although there are some similarities. I figured out some of the file format, but I really dont have time to make a full map creator, what with exams looming and a mod to make. maybe in a few months if I am finnished with se4 and I am really board in the summer (which I probably will be, i'm too lazy to get a job ) I'll grab my labtop and lie in the sun for an hour or six. It is an interesting challenge though. I think i'll dream of lines of hex tonight

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors.

There was a game I played a long time ago - VGA planets, I think - that figured out a way around player cheating. The host kept files for everything, and the program generated files from that which were subsets of the total data (only the stuff the player would be able to see). When the turn was run on the host, the host program compared all the changes which were made to the various players' turns, and checked to see if they were possible. If one wasn't, the host would get a message that the player's status was in the red, and the offending materials/supplies/ships/money was destroyed, with the player getting a message along the lines of "1000 credits have been discovered to be counterfit!" or "A ship has spontaneously exploded!" et cetera. Players couldn't open the save files up to get information on their opponents, becuase it wasn't there to get. Players couldn't edit their available resources because the host checked for the possibility of the changes (with very few exceptions, a player couldn't edit the files to do anything that couldn't be done honestly). The host, however, could do anything, as the host had all of the base files that turns get compared to.

A similar system might allow for editing maps without allowing for the possibility of cheating.

Then again, it might be impossible to implement for real time play.

Just my 2 cents worth.

[Taz-in-Space]

Posted by TerranC:

There is one effective way to edit a map:
Use the map editor to make the systems, place the planets, and everything else BUT the warp points.

Save the map and load the map and start a game with it, with tech setting set to high, enable save map in game, enable cheat modes, and load up your race as the only one in the game.

Start the game, and click yes when it asks you if you still want to play the game.

Build a stellar manip ship, and warp away.

After you're done, save and finish!

That's an innovative way to do it. My only change would be to go into the GAME map generator and generate the map there.

This is because the map generator is NOT random.
That's right folks, with the same settings you WILL get an identical map. (or identical series of maps)
Whoever programmed the map editor forgot to ensure a truly random generation. This is easy to do since many programming Languages have only pseudo-random number generator that must be randomized by programming tricks. (Like creating a Seed number based on the system clock's current time.)

[Ruatha]

Originally posted by Jack Simth:

quote:

---

Originally posted by dogscoff:
I guess it's to stop in-game cheating, but I'm sure an equally effective solution would have been possible while still enabling players to write their own map editors.

There was a game I played a long time ago - VGA planets, I think - that figured out a way around player cheating. The host kept files for everything, and the program generated files from that which were subsets of the total data (only the stuff the player would be able to see). When the turn was run on the host, the host program compared all the changes which were made to the various players' turns, and checked to see if they were possible. If one wasn't, the host would get a message that the player's status was in the red, and the offending materials/supplies/ships/money was destroyed, with the player getting a message along the lines of "1000 credits have been discovered to be counterfit!" or "A ship has spontaneously exploded!" et cetera. Players couldn't open the save files up to get information on their opponents, becuase it wasn't there to get. Players couldn't edit their available resources because the host checked for the possibility of the changes (with very few exceptions, a player couldn't edit the files to do anything that couldn't be done honestly). The host, however, could do anything, as the host had all of the base files that turns get compared to.

A similar system might allow for editing maps without allowing for the possibility of cheating.

Then again, it might be impossible to implement for real time play.

Just my 2 cents worth.

---

Yes, but it did happen that the dreaded "Tim Continuum" stroke without cause, not often but it did happen.

[Jack Simth]

Originally posted by Ruatha:
Yes, but it did happen that the dreaded "Tim Continuum" stroke without cause, not often but it did happen.

I suspect that is why they fixes were disguised as random events, and the host program didn't automatically boot the offending player out of the game.

However, assuming the false positive has the same chance per player (or the same chance per ship/planet processed) then it still makes for a fair game - you just have a new source of random events.

Besides, false positives are just programming bugs or transmission errors, and theoretically could be worked out in a different implementation.