is there a thread on proportions

[Mephisto]

Try this link:
http://www.shrapnelgames.com/cgi-bin...50;p=21#000304

[tesco samoa]

Pvk.

I was not trying to put down your mod. I was just mentioning that it takes along time to play out on PBW.

That is all.

I am the fan of the mid game...

[PvK]

Thanks Tesco. The "not" message was directed at Fryon, whose repeated opinion I'd already responded to before. That is, game "speed" depends on what you measure, how you set up the game, and how you play. Colonial development and high-tech research are slower, but as I already wrote, the action can actually be faster. The unmodded game's pattern of colonizing and reasearching everything before fighting (or risk falling hopelessly behind) is made impractical by Proportions as makes sense and allows for more varied styles of play. So if you fail to realize this, and try to play Proportions like the unmodded game, and gauge its "speed" on how quickly the old approach can be realized, then it may seem slow.

Some options though for some interesting and "faster" Proportions starts, as I've mentioned before, include:

* auto-running the first 100-200 turns using Proportions-modded AI's

* going to settings.txt and adjusting the resource values of planets in the quadrant

PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by Narrew:
One of the things I am wondering about, the HW starts out with a Resupply Base which is not needed, what do most of you replace it with (ie research). Right now in a solo game I have just been building Research I centers on my newly colonized planets (the cheapest thing to make).

There are a number of interesting options for what to put on the homeworld's free slot(s), which can have important long-term effects. I often change what I have there at different stages of the game, depending on what is going on.

In the doc for Proportions it mentions that once you get to 50 mil pop the build speed curve tapers off, do you get a planet to 50 mil then go to other planets and get them up to 50? or work on 1 planet till near max?

There are several valid techniques. One thing to consider is the range to destination, and another is what other planets you could raise to higher levels. Note there is also a drop off in construction rate at around 10 million, and the low millions are really sad compared to about 10-12 million. It depends on the situation and your strategy what makes the most sense. A good approach though may be to fill closest planets to about 50, and more distant planets to about 10, or maybe less for ones that are farther out.

That brings me to my Last item, if you have a new planet that is 5 max facilities, I have made 4 Research centers, when would you start building a Settlement, right away regardless of pop, or until after you hit 50 mil or more (am wondering if the build time will adjust as you add more pop while something is building). Can you upgrade a Settlement to a Colonial Community? or should I just start building a Colonial Community (will take forever, hehe).

Well, that's an even wider-open decision, I think. I'd consider circumstance, such as proximity to threats, storage space for defenses, the need for a resupply depot, etc. If it's a research colony, you might want to put a computer complex there instead of a cultural facility, for another example.

For the simple questions, yes the build time will adjust to match the current population level. You can start building something that says it will take ten years with 1 million pop, and then dump more pop on it and it will go down to the correct amount.

Colonial Settlements can be upgraded to Colonial Communities, but those can't be upgraded to cities. Small Cities can be upgraded all the way to Megolopolis, however. So Colonial Settlements and Communities are good if you want just a little multi-purpose ability on a planet, without the investment time of building a city. Cities are better for serious long-term investment, though.

PvK

[Fyron]

The "not" message was directed at Fryon, whose repeated opinion I'd already responded to before.

So? Proportions still has the same issues with PBW that it did before. It is the nature of the mod; you can't very well fix those issues without destroying the spirit of the mod. Although, that summary dismissal of my valid points was a pretty nice way to respond to criticism...

[ April 08, 2003, 05:31: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[Narrew]

Thanks PvK

[PvK]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

quote:

---

The "not" message was directed at Fryon, whose repeated opinion I'd already responded to before.

So? Proportions still has the same issues with PBW that it did before. It is the nature of the mod; you can't very well fix those issues without destroying the spirit of the mod. Although, that summary dismissal of my valid points was a pretty nice way to respond to criticism...

---

Fryon, again it seems like you're just ignoring or not understanding what I said, even though I've now responded twice (not counting the summary dismissal).

PvK

[tesco samoa]

sorry narrew.

[ZeroAdunn]

Proportions is a great mod. Of course, as mentioned is it can be very slow on PBW.

Good ways to speed it up: Only allow players in you know are reliable, set up 36 hour turns, and plan turn blitzes, especially early on.

[Fyron]

Originally posted by PvK:
Fryon, again it seems like you're just ignoring or not understanding what I said, even though I've now responded twice (not counting the summary dismissal).

No, I understand what you posted perfectly well. Those modes of play just aren't very appealing. I do not want the AI to ever play a turn for my empire. I don't want to go have ludicrously high planet values either. I don't want to play on really small maps with 10 (or even 5) HWs, of any type, Proportions or unmodded. None of these fall under the Category of "general PBW use", which is what I said Proportions was not very good for. They fall under "specialty PBW games" because of the odd features (well, 10 HWs isn't quite odd, but 10 Proportions HWs is). Proportions as it is meant to be played (1 HW, normal planet values, that sort of thing) creates games that need many times the number of turns that a normal PBW game needs, and this is what I said was bad for PBW games.

I think the crux of the problem is that you are interpreting "not good for general PBW use" as "not in any way shape or form good for PBW, period". This is not what I meant, nor what I said.

[ April 09, 2003, 01:07: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]