Atmospheres - Page 2

Captain Kwok · #11 February 16th, 2003, 02:37 AM

Yes, SO2 would be good, so would NH3, and He gas giants for some more variety. They don't necessarily have to be able to support life.

couslee · #12 February 16th, 2003, 03:17 AM

That is assuming we know about ALL types of elements. There may be other we have not discovered that have the same chain properties as carbon and are not affected by chlorine. If evolution progressed on those worlds, life would be certainly different. Maybe they would say "humbug", life can not possibly exist on an oxygen world, it's just unrealistic.

Damn Terrans think they know everything. geesh

[ February 16, 2003, 01:20: Message edited by: couslee ]

Fyron · #13 February 16th, 2003, 03:27 AM

No, there can't be other natural elements. The only elements we do not know about are the incredibly dense ones (more than about 120 protons) that can not in any way form naturally, as they are too unstable and fall apart nearly instantaneously when created in labs. There are theories about atoms being stable with something like 150 protons (I don't remember the exact number), but these can not form naturally, only in an artificial environment.

An element is an atom with a certain number of protons. If you change the number of protons, the atom acts just like a different element that has that number of protons. You can not get new elements with the same number of protons and different properties than an existing element.

Quote:

Maybe they would say "humbug", life can not possibly exist on an oxygen world, it's just unrealistic.

Actually, no, they would not say that. They would have studied chemistry and seen that oxygen is reactive enough to be used to transmit excess energy and a Hydrogen atom when breaking apart glucose molecules to get energy for cells to funtion, but not so reactive that it eats away at everything. So if these chlorine world lifeforms existed, they would not dismiss life on an oxygen world as unrealistic. That is, if it were possible for them to exist in the first place.

I never said I knew everything. I do know some basic chemistry though.

[ February 16, 2003, 01:48: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

oleg · #14 February 16th, 2003, 05:01 AM

Well, the if go to __very__ high atom numbers, and I mean ___very____ high, we can end up in neutron star. Now, if we make a quantum leap of faith, we'l move from the electromagnetic form of life, that is us, to atomic, or "strong force" universe. This hypothetical form of existance will be in different time and space scale, almost without any potential contact with our universe. Truly alien.

Desdinova · #15 February 16th, 2003, 05:08 AM

to paraphrase Q "I would simply alter the physical laws of the universe". then we can have any type of lifeform we want that is capable of living in any type of atmosphere. who says that SEIV has to take place in our reality?

Slick · #16 February 16th, 2003, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
[QB]Chlorine makes 0 sense for a life-supporting atmosphere. It is too reactive of an element and tends to destroy any molecules it comes in contact with. Complex, sentient lifeforms evolving on a chlorine atmosphere world would be too unbelievable.

QB]

Oxygen is much more reactive than chlorine. Therefore by your reasoning it makes 0 sense for it to be a life-supporting atmosphere.

Krsqk · #17 February 16th, 2003, 05:53 AM

Umm, Fyron, you're assuming we can only have atoms with integral numbers of protons. What about element number 48.75? Hmmm?

Slick · #18 February 16th, 2003, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krsqk:
Umm, Fyron, you're assuming we can only have atoms with integral numbers of protons. What about element number 48.75? Hmmm?

Although I would never assert that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence... I would point out that nothing like this has ever been observed. Additionally, under our current understanding of physics, protons are made up of smaller parts called quarks. Our current understanding, which is supported by experiment, says that these quarks are only stable in certain configurations. Thus, our current model of physics, which is strongly supported by experiment, does not allow for fractional numbers of protons.

However SE4 is a game where anything is possible.

Slick.

Baron Munchausen · #19 February 16th, 2003, 06:59 AM

Of course, this whole debate about the 'suitability' of one atmosphere or another for life is presuming that there are distinct 'types' of atmospheres. This is even more UNrealistic than trying to claim that life could exist in a predominantly chlorine atmosphere.

I hope that SE V will have much subtler gradations of 'suitability' to account for the highly variable composition of various elements that would exist in real atmospheres. Balancing atmospheric gases could be a field of terraforming all to itself. (As opposed to the very crude 'conVersion' currently offered.)

Then with temperature, gravity, and radiation levels we could finally have some believably realistic environmental management on our worlds.

Desdinova · #20 February 16th, 2003, 07:33 AM

sounds like you are talking about stars' planetary characteristics. just a sliding bar to determine where your races habitable/tolerable ranges are. no specific atmosphere, gravity or radiation selected.