Unused weapons causing me to lose battles

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by skigrinder:

This is disappointing as I have spent considerable energy constructing planetary defense WP's to deal with large fleet attacks.

Oh dear, I didn't know it was that important to you. I have some real bad news for you. Do a forum search for "AI innovative tactics" -- it is clear that the AI preferentially attacks planets whose defences it can beat. And can see them without having been there before.

Anyways, a human would just research planetary weapons, and use intel to destroy your weapon platforms.

These little orbiting rocks, snowballs, and gasbags are not homes for people -- they are sources of resources for your grand conquest of space. Research, Intel, Spaceyards and resourse storage are likewse all means to an end.

IMHO you can never defend a planet perfectly. And you will lose the game if you spend time trying. Weapon platforms, mines, sats, fighters, bases, orbiting and patroling ships are all good ideas. But find the sources of the attacks and take them out.

[oleg]

Originally posted by Arkcon:

quote:

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Originally posted by skigrinder:

This is disappointing as I have spent considerable energy constructing planetary defense WP's to deal with large fleet attacks.

Oh dear, I didn't know it was that important to you. I have some real bad news for you. Do a forum search for "AI innovative tactics" -- it is clear that the AI preferentially attacks planets whose defences it can beat. And can see them without having been there before.

Anyways, a human would just research planetary weapons, and use intel to destroy your weapon platforms.

These little orbiting rocks, snowballs, and gasbags are not homes for people -- they are sources of resources for your grand conquest of space. Research, Intel, Spaceyards and resourse storage are likewse all means to an end.

IMHO you can never defend a planet perfectly. And you will lose the game if you spend time trying. Weapon platforms, mines, sats, fighters, bases, orbiting and patroling ships are all good ideas. But find the sources of the attacks and take them out.

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It is all very much different in Proportions. defending your developed planets is very important and much more fun than in normal SE !

[geoschmo]

You make valid points Arkcon, at least as far as stock SEIV goes. But if you do take the time and spend the resources building weapons platfoms, it would be nice if they would fire all the weapons they have available to them.

[skigrinder]

Thanx for the comments Arkcon.

I agree with what you say and believe it makes the AI worth playing against.
I especially like 'team mode' where you don't have to spend time on treaties and alliances that are unpredictable. My race accepts that it lives in a harsh, aggressive universe.

In order to successfully defend my population (and resource developments), I must invest heavily in WP's for each planet.

At least one of the TDM AI races (Space Vikings) prefers to skip boundary systems and head straight for the interior. This can be quite unnerving with lots of big fleets around my homeworld planets.

My theory is that one heavily defended (and shielded) planet should be able to knock out a very large fleet (100+) of very large ships.

I've modified the systemtypes.txt file to create more moons per planet (this needs to be done anyway to make things more realistic - i.e. Jupiter with 10 moons). The moons are filled with Cargo Facilities, Massive Planetary Shields, and Weapons Platforms to aid in the defense effort.

I've also created a (WP only) missile weapon component - Planetary Defense Missile Spread - to balance the playing field and make planetary defense possible.
These missiles have maximum range, quick reload, and big punch.
Again, the theory is that a large, heavily populated planet with lots of resources should be able to fire thousands of missiles and overwhelm very large fleets of attacking ships.

It has taken several games, but I've gotten the balance to the point where it's possible to take on six or eight of the TDM AI races in good back and forth battles and games that Last for several weeks.

I reduce the AI Intelligence capabilities (and increase my own) to correspondingly balance that aspect of the game. Again, I've worked out the balance to the point where Intel is a very interesting part of the conflict.

Anyway, that's my philosophy for a more realistic universe.

The only trouble is, I have available WP's that aren't firing in combat.

Please let me know if you can think of a way to fix this.

Thanx,
skigrinder

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by skigrinder:

The only trouble is, I have available WP's that aren't firing in combat.

Please let me know if you can think of a way to fix this.

Thanx,
skigrinder

Moding the weapon platform weapons was the best solution to this problem I've heard of in a long while. The Proportions mod also tries to defend the planet's population.

Are you sure the planet's weapons aren't out of range? Perhaps a test under tactical conbat to see.

I hate to be stubborn, but if the AI can see what weapons you have, won't it always build a fleet to suit and destroy static defences?

I hate to be cynical. (well that's a lie actually, I often revel in cynicism to everyone around me's chagrin )

But once I found out how the AI can see a planet's defences -- I've really stopped caring about crafty plans and just started slapping stuff on and hope it works. At least until a ship can get there.

But if a human wants a planet -- they'll get it, or glass it. Eventually.

[ October 02, 2002, 03:42: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[skigrinder]

Sorry Arkcon.
I missed a couple of questions from your original post.

My 'Planetary Defense Missile Spread' component has a range of 20 and a reload rate of 1.

I've seen the problem (available missiles not firing in combat) even when the attacking ships are sitting right next to the planet so I don't believe it's a range issue.

It looks like the automatic targeting algorithm is calculating how many missiles to send based on ship size and shield strength. It seems to fail to take point defense capabilities into account.

These missiles get fired, reduced in number by the attacking fleet's point defense, and finally do substantially less damage than was originally intended (because point defense was not taken into consideration). Meanwhile, lots of available missiles sit idle in my WP's.

I agree with your point that the AI should not be able to see a planet's defenses until it actually attacks. This makes for a difficult challenge. I lose lots of planets and the strategic implications become complicated. Fast transports are used to distribute extra WP’s ahead of attacking fleets.

However, WP's are not the only line of defense.
I devote a tremendous amount of energy towards Intelligence.
Crew Insurrection and PPP are very effective ways to persuade the AI toward my way of thinking.
When the game gets big, I build fleets of heavily shielded ships with Allegiance Subverters and Computer Viruses.
Converted AI ships end up helping my defense.
I suspect that this throws off the AI’s calculation of my defenses and they attack with less might than they thought they had.
Very large AI fleets have been defeated using these tactics and it makes for some very interesting battles.

I’ve never tried this philosophy against a human but I believe that it would be tough to beat.

Thanx,
skigrinder

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by skigrinder:
Sorry Arkcon.
I missed a couple of questions from your original post.

My 'Planetary Defense Missile Spread' component has a range of 20 and a reload rate of 1.

I've seen the problem (available missiles not firing in combat) even when the attacking ships are sitting right next to the planet so I don't believe it's a range issue.

It looks like the automatic targeting algorithm is calculating how many missiles to send based on ship size and shield strength. It seems to fail to take point defense capabilities into account.

These missiles get fired, reduced in number by the attacking fleet's point defense, and finally do substantially less damage than was originally intended (because point defense was not taken into consideration). Meanwhile, lots of available missiles sit idle in my WP's.

Hmm... well, have you considered, as a work around until this bug is patched, increasing the defence of the missile itself so it's less affected by point defence. Other mods have done this, sort of an armored missile.

[ October 07, 2002, 19:11: Message edited by: Arkcon ]

[rextorres]

I know this thread is based on missiles, but I have experienced situations where the platforms won't fire on multiple ships with DIRECT FIRE weapons. They will destroy one ship, but not fire the rest on another. I've come to the conclusion that there is a bug.

[Arkcon]

Originally posted by rextorres:
I know this thread is based on missiles, but I have experienced situations where the platforms won't fire on multiple ships with DIRECT FIRE weapons. They will destroy one ship, but not fire the rest on another. I've come to the conclusion that there is a bug.

Geo saw it happening with direct fire as well