Looks Like Stars is Star Dust

[tesco samoa]

Stars was out long before 95. Perhaps they should go back to there roots... take the hit and release the game on the internet. Instead of trying to get in an EB near you. Later if there sucessful then the can make a STARS! Version in a box. Or something. I would hate to see that game disappear. I miss flinging packets across the dark expanses of space

[Tenryu]

Originally posted by chewy027:
or we could just wait for something better to come out

Ya. But, ya'll wait a while, I'll warrant.

[LokiOne]

Don't discount the power of the little people. It appears that the multitude of supporters for the Jagged Alliance games has caught the attention of STRATEGYFIRST. They are going to take up the reins where SirTech had to drop them and run with it. Hope they let Urban Chaos get finished and released. The JA:UB and the spun-off mods are great fun if you are into tactical man-to-man games (IMHO).

[Tenryu]

LOL! Well, used to play AH's Squad Leader, long ago, but I still LOVE, strategic level war games.
Perhaps, we are a dieing breed.

That said, still, sick bastard I am, i love the micromanagement in SE4. LOL!@@@@@!

[Shadowstar]

There will be MOO3...

I heard about Stars SNG 2 years ago and have been waiting for it ever since. Actually, that's not true. I gave up waiting for it a few months ago. I think it would be an excellent game, but it can't be any kind of game if it never gets released. My Starscape universe was born in Stars! and still lives and thrives in what I like to call "The Stars! Engine", but in my mind, Starscape deserves something that won't limit its possibilities. Stars! does, and it looks like, from what I've read, Stars SNG will to.

I know, of course, that it will always be limited until the day that I can develop it into its own game, but because I am a wealth-less mail-order-office-grunt with no programming talent whatsoever, I know that my dreams of creating the ultimate 4x game will have to wait for now.

Until then, I seek out new 4x games to transfer Starscape to, always grasping for that extra little bit of control that is so essential to my ability to run Starscape games. As the game tends to resemble an RPG in some ways, as the host or gamemaster, I need lots of power over the universe, the players, the characters, and what happens in the universe. Stars! limited me a great deal until I figured out how to alter the host files. Even then, the changes I can do are chancy and don't always work. But I try.

I swear, I've spent more directed energies on running Starscape consistently for the past 3 years than I have on anything else in my life, expecting nothing in return because I simply enjoy running the game and listening to what the players have to say about it. It's gotten to the point where I am paying $10 a month to keep Starscape running, expecting nothing in return, and charging nothing for the players to play it.

That's how I know that developing this universe from its current mod form to a full-fledged game is my calling. My final plan for Starscape is to develop it into a massively multiplayer game that combines RTS, 4X, Space combat/trading, FPS, and RPG all into one. I've already got ideas about how this will work but the first game I will ever release (assuming I get that far) will be a basic 4x. It will have new features of course, but it will be simple and easy to produce (as it will be my first title). Later on, provided it does well, I can think about working on the massively multiplayer ubergame sequel.

So, after all that, you can see how I'm not so worried about one 4x development effort going under. I'd hate to see S:SNG die, but I'm keeping my eye on the big fish, like MOO3, SEIV, and SEV (and yes, I consider the Space Empires series to be big fish, because I look at games in terms of how fun they are, and nothing else.)

I refuse to base my opinions on hype.

[Bman]

I am looking forward to Galactic Civilizations

[Wardad]

I'm playing in a STARS! multiplayer game and I'm kicking butt!!! Mwahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

----------------------------------------------
Rock, Paper, Scissors.

[Shadowstar]

GalCiv looks cool, but what I am planning on doing ultimately with Starscape is allowing a player to play any part they want to in the universe.

WARNING: lots of text follows!

Each game that is started in Starscape will play on a randomly-generated "sector", a section of a galaxy surrounded by mysterious barrier-fields that prevent FTL travel, which contains thousands of realistic star systems, each with up to 30 planets or other bodies within them. I will do this by using fractal generation, where you only need a handful of numbers to generate thousands of planets, star systems, nebulae, and anomalies. The process is not exactly random, but it "appears" to be random. Only the seed numbers are randomized. Everything else is derived based on those numbers, and those numbers are what's stored on the hard drive.

For instance, multply 50 by 83 (two randomly picked numbers from 1 to 100) 10 times and take the Last two numbers from each result to get a pseudo-random value for the overall planet type of 10 planets in a star system. You only have to store the numbers 50, 83, and 10 in a universe file, yet you get 10 varied planet types from that, and the values will always be the same as long as you use those numbers. They will seem random, however. Multiply them 5000 times and you create the planet type variables for 5000 planets. You can express all of the factors that shape all the planets in your universe with 3 numbers each using this incredibly simplified Version of the method I will use. Of course, my system would be a bit more complex because we'd be generating massive 3d planet surfaces as well as planetary factors like atmosphere, minerals, etc.

Now, buildings, ruins, vehicles, and other things that would accumulate on planets over time would have to be stored individually, so that could lead to a large file in time, but in the massively-multiplayer-ubergame (MMU), as I like to call it, each game would be running on a dedicated server designed to handle all the information neccessary for the game. I am 100% certain that the details of this kind of thing will prove to be one of the project's most challenging design aspects. In a large universe, there WILL be plenty of player-created structures, as well as ships, vehicles, and other things. Look at Ultima Online. All those houses quickly filled up thier world, though the UO world wasn't incredibly huge either... But we'll cross this bridge when we come to it.

Essentially at the game's core it would be an FPS. When you joined a game, you would get to create a new character, like in an RPG. Whatever type of character you created, your first view and the natural view you will have of the universe (natural being not using any kind of interface or computer), would be an FPS. You would move around and interact with the world similar to the way standard FPS works. Emperors, however, would spend most of thier time using thier Emperor-Interface computer, which gives you a 4x-style interface by which to control your empire. However, you could turn off the interface and go for a walk if you wanted, viewing your palace or parts of your empire in full 3d (though that could be risky as some disgruntled player might try to assassinate you if your police settings in the government setup aren't very good). The first 15 people to create characters would have the option to start a new empire (I'm thinking limiting the amount of empires in a sector to 15). If you were the first player in a new game, you wouldn't be able to join an existing empire (there aren't any yet), but you could choose to start a new empire or become an independent (more on that later). You can select your race from several classic races from Starscape (including humans) or create your own race (if you are a creating an empire or becoming an independent) using a point-based race-generator. After that, you can set your individual character stats. When creating a new empire, you would set everything from society to government, laws, military, etc. all on a point-based system. Because you would be creating an empire that new players might want to join, you would want to design it to attract players (or, if you don't like people, design it to be harsh and difficult so players won't join your empire).

Essentially, all empires are populated by large numbers of population, each 100 or 1000 (or even 1,000,000!) people is represented by an NPC that changes randomly every day or so. I still haven't worked out the basics of this quite yet, but there are many ways to approach it.

NPC's are basically mindless. They are the average lunkhead you might encounter in the street. Thier lives are spent doing thier job. They have no desire to become anything more. They are the incompentent burglars, the supermarket baggers that always drop your grocieries. They are merchants, shop owners, red-shirt crewmen, grunts in the military, servants, and slaves. They represent Groups of population, so the higher the population on a planet, the more NPC's will be running around at any given time. Players can interact with them to a certain degree.

The players are the "heroes" or "villians". Thier potential is beyond the NPC's. No NPC can ever be an important character (unless it is a character created by and played by the host/gamemaster or someone given such powers by the host/gamemaster - after all, having a main character in the game run by an AI is kinda silly, though many games have done it before). However, it will also be possible for players to play a meek role. If the player wants to run a shop or farm thier whole game-lives, they can, but it will always be possible for them to rise above that and become legendary. Also, only a player can be a leader. If a leader dies or leaves office, another player can take thier place (depending on the government settings for that nation/race). If the leader is not replaced for a given amount of time (also determined by government and society settings for that nation/race), that nation/race falls into anarchy and basically all the laws and government settings for that nation are turned off, the borders dissapear from the map, etc. In short, everything owned by that empire becomes PvP territory.

Ships will be piloted either by NPC's or by players. You could have a player-captain and players for crew members - a kind of massively-multiplayer Star Trek. The ships and such would either be commissioned and ordered about by the Emperor or a military commander of some sort (a Player).

Players could even voluntarily play as "Independents", which is not part of any nation or race. This would be like deciding to play in a PvP environment. Players could own ships, facilities, etc. by purchasing them from other nations or stealing them, etc. Players could recruit independent NPC's (who are all basically just monster-type AI's that will randomly attack various players). A charismatic player could "charm", or befriend, or even threaten, an Indy NPC into joining them and use this tactic to build up an army. You'd have player-warlords roaming around on anarchic Independent planets. Perhaps even small tribes would form if players started working together in anarchic societies. Quake clans, anyone?

When joining an empire, a player would start out as just an ordinary joe, but as a player, they could work thier way to thier desired life. The emperor/leader of a nation/race determines who can fill the player-only positions within thier empire. Having players to run these various aspects of your empire would be an excellent micromanagement control, but because the game runs in real time, Emperors would usually have enough time to micromanage things if they wished. Ships would take a while to travel through hyperspace, on the order of days, and there would be plenty of menial pursuits for players to occupy themselves with if they wished, though most people would probably log out while thier ship was in transit and go either play another game for a while or actually have a life. (heh heh)

Technology is another aspect I've been working out for this MMU. I'm toying with the idea of allowing Player-Inventors. Basically, creating a whole detailed system for the design of new components. Player-Inventors would spend thier time devising and creating new technologies for thier empire to use. Alternatively, a simplified technology system would be available for Emperors who didn't have any Player-Inventors working for them.

Obviously, alot of the gaps will have to be filled in with stuff I will ultimately take from my first game, which will be a basic 4x (not this super-hybrid "MMU").

Now that I look back over all this, it all seems very OT... Sorry about that, but I've had all these ideas floating around in my head for the longest time. I didn't even mention all the ideas I already have for my initial 4x. Of course, realistically, I probably won't end up developing any of this for 6-7 years... Unless I can get some kind of big break into the computer game development industry at some point. Until then, I'll make my money licking envelopes and filling orders...

[Puke]

i really like the galciv take on trade goods. i guess the big question is, can the game be modified?

im guessing not, since it sounds like Online games have to be played thru stardock, and i doubt that stardock is going to support random user mods.

[Bman]

Originally posted by Puke:
i really like the galciv take on trade goods. i guess the big question is, can the game be modified?

im guessing not, since it sounds like Online games have to be played thru stardock, and i doubt that stardock is going to support random user mods.

Well it is only a single-player game also. My understanding is that some things will be mod-able. There is a in-game voting mechanism by which the rules can be modified if enough of the empires vote for the change. My understanding is you can create new "issues" to vote on. I'm unclear exactly how this works but it sounds interesting at least. It should be a great single-player experience.