Making Hard Choices

[Shangrila00]

Meh, don't like MA TC. They aren't bad or anything, but EA TC and LA TC are so much more awesome that I always feel gimped with MA TC.

As for getting astral, the only definitely works thing is summoning Spectres. And that's way too expensive and produces a too crappy mage to do a lot of. If you take Magic 3 scales and luck, a S3 stealthy mage may join you. If you also take Order and Heat and have good earth income, Hidden in Sand is worth repeated castings. A strong blood nation also has a shot at one ice devil and one arch devil with astral, but they're uniques.

[Valerius]

As much as I like Eriu (and the current CBM version is very fun), if you aren't that interested in the stealth aspect of the game they might not be a good choice. Actually no stealth or blood rules out all my favorite nations.

What about Machaka? While it's not my style of play I think they're an interesting nation and have gotten some CBM boosts.

Originally Posted by legowarrior

What are good ways to get into Astral? Any decent summons that would allow a non astral nation (but with an astral pretender if necessary) get some astral access?

Spectres, golems, hidden in sand. Pretty sure that's it (aside from tarts of course). I'm still hoping for CBM to add some more options for breaking into astral.

Edit: Lol. Lots of responses to breaking into S. Forgot about ether lords.

[legowarrior]

I can do stealth, I just don't have much practice with it yet. I've always had a preference for Heavy Infantry backed up with ranged weapons.

[Legendary League]

Originally Posted by legowarrior

Yeah, the Pythium don't have all that much in the way of ranged units. I might try the Erui though. They lack awesome longbow men, but they do have Firbolg Slingers. Anyone have a guide for the Erui that is up to date?
That being said, the Marignon and man are great as well. Dang, this is hard.

The problem is that the Jomon has spoiled me. Decent to go ranged units, diverse magic and cool summons. The only thing it lacks is fast moving mages or heavy shields.

I was trying out Eriu in SP for an ME MP game (which I ended up ceding to someone else who really wanted to play a water nation). I think Baalz's guide to Eriu is still quite applicable, esp. in regards to the thugging of Sidhe Lords (And Tuatha are even better for thugging, with Air, Nature, and Earth). Their bog standard weapon (Golden Lance) also has false fetters as an effect (not sure if added in CBM or not), which also makes them surprisingly good anti-thugs out of the can. Plus the Tuatha can all cast thunderstrike out of the can (Sidhe Lords with Storm can too, since you aren't as reliant on missiles), and have great strategic mobility (cloud trapeze+mm3+forest survival).

What has me stumped though is how you diversify them, with W/N/E/A. It's a great spread of magics for the midgame, but it doesn't seem to lend itself to breaking into either death or astral (death seems best, since you have such good nature access already). The answer normally would be a rainbow pretender, but you're pressed for points if you go with the E9N4 bless for Sidhe/Tuatha (which is just tremendously good for them). Also, Fir Bolg are awesome, and the army buffs you can put on them are even more awesome (Earth, Air, Nature, hello!). The answer would be drown them in thugged out Sidhe Lords/Tuatha, and pummel them with Fir Bolg backed with major army buffs and thunderstrikes before Tarts and Zmeys and the like come online in numbers, I guess.

Just random musings of mine.

[Shardphoenix]

What has me stumped though is how you diversify them, with W/N/E/A.

Plan A: Take 2 death on your pretender. Summon Lamia Queens. Now you have good D access. Forge Jade Mask for bonus points.
Plan B: Get underwater. Summon Ancient Krakens, give them Fish Amulets, conquer the world in the name of tentacles. For bonus points, use B-random landlubbing krackens to bloodhunt.
Plan C: Summon Shishis, Awaken Asynjas. Airdropping thugs+stealthy glamoured airdropping SCs FTW!

[thejeff]

Originally Posted by Valerius

As much as I like Eriu (and the current CBM version is very fun), if you aren't that interested in the stealth aspect of the game they might not be a good choice. Actually no stealth or blood rules out all my favorite nations.

What about Machaka? While it's not my style of play I think they're an interesting nation and have gotten some CBM boosts.

Spectres, golems, hidden in sand. Pretty sure that's it (aside from tarts of course). I'm still hoping for CBM to add some more options for breaking into astral.

Edit: Lol. Lots of responses to breaking into S. Forgot about ether lords.

Don't forget that Lizard Shaman provinces are pretty common, even in MA. It's not a guarantee and they're only 1S, but they can start site-searching at least.

[legowarrior]

Originally Posted by thejeff

Don't forget that Lizard Shaman provinces are pretty common, even in MA. It's not a guarantee and they're only 1S, but they can start site-searching at least.

Piggy backing on my last question, what's the best way to get access to any paths, starting only with your pretender? What I mean is, how do I get access to air magic or nature magic if I don't have national access to it? Death is pretty easy, as long as you have 3 death, you can summon spell casters. Earth magic has the Troll king, which for 2 earth and earth boots is a done deal.

[Shangrila00]

Check the booster guide on the wiki. I think it's pretty complete, with the exception of the EDM additions in CBM. Summon Treant can give you the N/W and N/E crosspaths starting with just N, Great Krakens can give you W/B and a chance at E/N also, both of these in Enchantment. Asynja and Ember Lords can also get you crosspaths, but at Conjuration 8 and 9, you might has well get Tartarians for all your diversity needs.

On Eriu, you have 2 heroes with death. Unfortunately you have a ton of heros including a multi-hero, so even at luck 3, you might never get them in good time. If you do have the good luck to get those heroes though, you can use spectres to get astral and the E/D crosspath, then use the E/D crosspath to cast Hidden in Sand for all your fire/death/astral needs. Sadly, you can't get S3 with this, so no astral rings unless you get artifacts, which isn't going to happen with your craptastic research.

[Shardphoenix]

to cast Hidden in Sand for all your fire/death/astral needs

Sometimes, finding a suitable wasteland can be problematic.

[Zywack]

For archers, Shinuyama is obviously a great choice (4 types of national archers, all recruitable in every province, and easy access to flaming arrows)... However, the "no troops have shields" does put a damper on the whole thing, and they have no natural access to Astral and Air at all (although you do have national air summons that have points in air though if you have a pretender with it).

I wonder if Patala might be a good idea? They got mind-blowingly good capital mages (especially for late age), archers with longbows and decently durable troops. No fire, air or death access, though... And the best non-capital mages you have are 2 Astral 1 Nature. Could be a good pick to learn and practice using communions though (I'm currently doing that in a single player game).